Combat changes

Thread starter #1

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
Now with MO2 on its way it is the best time ever to fledge out combat and get it back on track according to the original vision of MO that being about individual player skill and not like traditional themepark MMOs thats based on either levels, gear or numbers.

Increase movement speed on foot by 25% as a start, prediction is no longer a valid reason to keep it as slow as it is today seeing as SV has not been decreasing the speed of cars errrm I mean horses since their speed buff and they are still zooming around at the speed of well sport cars.
Also make movement speed the same for all races and be capped at say 100 dexterity(this dex hardcap being in reach of all races) and make movement speed difference between 10 dex and 100 dex alot smaller so that starting players dont feel like their feet is old and broken.

Decrease the dmg mitigation of armor to decrease the significance that gear has and in doing so decrease the amount of errors one can do while still surviving in combat due to gear.
And decrease the gap between molarium and Oghmium and everything inbetween to decrease the significance of high tier materials to reduce the significance of gear.

Decrease healing in combat by 50% across the board, pots, bandages and mage healing again to decrease the amount of errors players should be allowed to do while in combat situations to decrease the ability pure numbers has against player skill.

Decrease both blocking and slashing arc by 25% and increase sweetspot hits by 10% to increase the importance of precision needed to strike good hits. Make active training (which also increases the time spent actively playing the game) matter and have a impact on the player skill a player has in combat situations.

Decrease overall mount health back to how old horses used to have pre breeding to emphasize more tactical mount play and not blatantly ignoring it because a horse has HP of a small fortress. A mount should not have much more HP than a player does as its an animal getting hit with sharp weapons just like players are.

Balance weapons and handles seperate to ensure OP weapon combinations gets eliminated and to include as many viable combinations as possible, try to keep the same DPS on essentially all weapons balanced with how short and long they are. Longer weapons hitting slightly harder but also break way faster and using more stamina and be slower to use. Having complex crafting is not worth it unless all combinations are viable. Its no point in bragging about having millions of different combinations when a fraction is usable without putting the user at severe disadvantage. Diversity is king in MMOs as players want to be unique.

Balance armors better by making 3 categories light, normal and heavy. Light armors have mana regen as its bonus, normal have slower mana regen and heavy armor dont regen mana and have a 25% higher stamina use.

Make mounted combat only able to use 1h weapons while mounted for balance and realism.

Increase stamina use on swings by 25% decrease stamina use from running by 25% and increase stamina regen by 50%. If you spend all stamina have a 2 sec no stam regen before normal regen starts to punish players not paying attention to their stamina bar.


This is to promote active training, bring back player skill and increase the skill ceiling between untrained and trained combatants and reduce the significance of gear, numbers and in combat healing.

The general attitude against this type of balance is not to adhere to "PvP junkies" but changes like this will promote competitive players to return to the game. "PvP junkies" will not care about balance so long they get their PvP, however competitive PvPers will quit if they feel the game stacks against them with limitations of artificial nature such as gear, AI pets, mounts, etc.
Competitive players are the players most interested in PvP and rather want a small tight knit group aka special forces compared to normal soldiers, they strive to become the best fighters through active training combat during their play time opposed to those focusing on other parts in their play time.

The fact that gear, numbers, healing capabilities, pets and mounts have such an impact in combat opposed to player trained skill is why competitive players have quit the game and as such an active part of MOs roaming groups is now missing from the game creating stagnation and less activity.

Those players who dont want to spend most of their play time to hone their skills to be able to be "killing machines" and beat larger groups can still get satisfaction by being in large empire building guilds and will be able to counter smaller groups of elite PvPers as seen in MOs older times. But not having the option to achieve this or have these groups in the game takes alot out of the game.

If this is done properly and set in stone in MO, this can easily be tranferred over to MO2 when the time comes so that you dont need to spend time balancing combat in testing stages of MO2 like took alot of development time from MOs testing stages that could be spent on other sides of the game to get other MMO players interested in what they focus their play time on.

Most if not all of these changes are quick to do as most is simply changing numbers for instant results which can then be further tweaked until a nice spot is hit to then be locked with new items to be balanced accordingly easily without the long OP FOTM periods MO is so known for.

PvPers are easy to maintain once the core is in place and they will then stay and support the game while content is made for players needing a constant supply of new content which most competitive players dont need.

Here is 3 videos of high end metal users with low amount of in combat healing showing the competitive side of higher speed and lower gear dependancy in combat:

Combat was fast paced, high damage compared to gear mitigation and combat healing was limited compared to now with insane potions, high bandage healing and higher magic healing, player health has also been turned up since this time by almost 50% if I remember correctly.
I think I had 150hp or so on my Kallard build back then compared to over 200hp now.
Horses was used alot but they where not running fortresses with insane speeds doing insane damage. There is literally no excuse for horses to have so many edges as they have for years now.

Dawn is the last time players skill had any relevance in the game against equal geared players but that was only due to players using cronite/Tungsteel/Oghmium weapons on animal material such as scales. In the two videos here weapons are tungsteel/cronite on cronite armor.

Heres a couple Dawn videos for refference:

The main differences between these two eras was 7 hits on cronite with cronite and 5 hits on scales with cronite. More/higher in combat healing during Dawn but also more blocking mitigation during Dawn unless you used shield in the first beta era. Bandage healing was almost doubbled in the year difference.
But the speed difference is the biggest one and one that has alot of impact on combat effectiveness between a small group of skilled individuals with good teamwork against a large group of lesser skilled with less teamwork.
 
Thread starter #3

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
How does one hold these views simultaneously?
Speed is gameplay, diversity is how you look and what you use.

Speed has always been king in MO, better to make it same across the board since some races are limited in how much speed they can get while others have considerably higher making diversity in racial choice less than what it should be in a MMORPG.

Simply by making all races the same speed will increase diversity more than not.
 

Speznat

Senior Member
at many points i actually agree,

Stam regen needs to be higher and speed in general need a little bit higher, and all chars should have if all skilled the same max speed with should be like a veela veela with 125 dex.
 
Now with MO2 on its way it is the best time ever to fledge out combat and get it back on track according to the original vision of MO that being about individual player skill and not like traditional themepark MMOs thats based on either levels, gear or numbers.

Increase movement speed on foot by 25% as a start, prediction is no longer a valid reason to keep it as slow as it is today seeing as SV has not been decreasing the speed of cars errrm I mean horses since their speed buff and they are still zooming around at the speed of well sport cars.
Also make movement speed the same for all races and be capped at say 100 dexterity(this dex hardcap being in reach of all races) and make movement speed difference between 10 dex and 100 dex alot smaller so that starting players dont feel like their feet is old and broken.

Decrease the dmg mitigation of armor to decrease the significance that gear has and in doing so decrease the amount of errors one can do while still surviving in combat due to gear.
And decrease the gap between molarium and Oghmium and everything inbetween to decrease the significance of high tier materials to reduce the significance of gear.

Decrease healing in combat by 50% across the board, pots, bandages and mage healing again to decrease the amount of errors players should be allowed to do while in combat situations to decrease the ability pure numbers has against player skill.

Decrease both blocking and slashing arc by 25% and increase sweetspot hits by 10% to increase the importance of precision needed to strike good hits. Make active training (which also increases the time spent actively playing the game) matter and have a impact on the player skill a player has in combat situations.

Decrease overall mount health back to how old horses used to have pre breeding to emphasize more tactical mount play and not blatantly ignoring it because a horse has HP of a small fortress. A mount should not have much more HP than a player does as its an animal getting hit with sharp weapons just like players are.

Balance weapons and handles seperate to ensure OP weapon combinations gets eliminated and to include as many viable combinations as possible, try to keep the same DPS on essentially all weapons balanced with how short and long they are. Longer weapons hitting slightly harder but also break way faster and using more stamina and be slower to use. Having complex crafting is not worth it unless all combinations are viable. Its no point in bragging about having millions of different combinations when a fraction is usable without putting the user at severe disadvantage. Diversity is king in MMOs as players want to be unique.

Balance armors better by making 3 categories light, normal and heavy. Light armors have mana regen as its bonus, normal have slower mana regen and heavy armor dont regen mana and have a 25% higher stamina use.

Make mounted combat only able to use 1h weapons while mounted for balance and realism.

Increase stamina use on swings by 25% decrease stamina use from running by 25% and increase stamina regen by 50%. If you spend all stamina have a 2 sec no stam regen before normal regen starts to punish players not paying attention to their stamina bar.


This is to promote active training, bring back player skill and increase the skill ceiling between untrained and trained combatants and reduce the significance of gear, numbers and in combat healing.

The general attitude against this type of balance is not to adhere to "PvP junkies" but changes like this will promote competitive players to return to the game. "PvP junkies" will not care about balance so long they get their PvP, however competitive PvPers will quit if they feel the game stacks against them with limitations of artificial nature such as gear, AI pets, mounts, etc.
Competitive players are the players most interested in PvP and rather want a small tight knit group aka special forces compared to normal soldiers, they strive to become the best fighters through active training combat during their play time opposed to those focusing on other parts in their play time.

The fact that gear, numbers, healing capabilities, pets and mounts have such an impact in combat opposed to player trained skill is why competitive players have quit the game and as such an active part of MOs roaming groups is now missing from the game creating stagnation and less activity.

Those players who dont want to spend most of their play time to hone their skills to be able to be "killing machines" and beat larger groups can still get satisfaction by being in large empire building guilds and will be able to counter smaller groups of elite PvPers as seen in MOs older times. But not having the option to achieve this or have these groups in the game takes alot out of the game.

If this is done properly and set in stone in MO, this can easily be tranferred over to MO2 when the time comes so that you dont need to spend time balancing combat in testing stages of MO2 like took alot of development time from MOs testing stages that could be spent on other sides of the game to get other MMO players interested in what they focus their play time on.

Most if not all of these changes are quick to do as most is simply changing numbers for instant results which can then be further tweaked until a nice spot is hit to then be locked with new items to be balanced accordingly easily without the long OP FOTM periods MO is so known for.

PvPers are easy to maintain once the core is in place and they will then stay and support the game while content is made for players needing a constant supply of new content which most competitive players dont need.

Here is 3 videos of high end metal users with low amount of in combat healing showing the competitive side of higher speed and lower gear dependancy in combat:

Combat was fast paced, high damage compared to gear mitigation and combat healing was limited compared to now with insane potions, high bandage healing and higher magic healing, player health has also been turned up since this time by almost 50% if I remember correctly.
I think I had 150hp or so on my Kallard build back then compared to over 200hp now.
Horses was used alot but they where not running fortresses with insane speeds doing insane damage. There is literally no excuse for horses to have so many edges as they have for years now.

Dawn is the last time players skill had any relevance in the game against equal geared players but that was only due to players using cronite/Tungsteel/Oghmium weapons on animal material such as scales. In the two videos here weapons are tungsteel/cronite on cronite armor.

Heres a couple Dawn videos for refference:

The main differences between these two eras was 7 hits on cronite with cronite and 5 hits on scales with cronite. More/higher in combat healing during Dawn but also more blocking mitigation during Dawn unless you used shield in the first beta era. Bandage healing was almost doubbled in the year difference.
But the speed difference is the biggest one and one that has alot of impact on combat effectiveness between a small group of skilled individuals with good teamwork against a large group of lesser skilled with less teamwork.
i wish i played at that time, it looked way more fun...
 
Thread starter #6

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
i wish i played at that time, it looked way more fun...
It was, just the much higher speed and the higher danger from dying in high end metal in seconds was so adrenaline filled its crazy.

You also had way less in combat healing making errors certain death against competent players, truely skill based with a high skill ceiling making trained combatants highly valuable, team work coupled with individual skill was king.

Must be the rose tinted glasses again as so many claims even though the evidence is right there in the videos...
 

Teknique

Junior Member
Now with MO2 on its way it is the best time ever to fledge out combat and get it back on track according to the original vision of MO that being about individual player skill and not like traditional themepark MMOs thats based on either levels, gear or numbers.

Increase movement speed on foot by 25% as a start, prediction is no longer a valid reason to keep it as slow as it is today seeing as SV has not been decreasing the speed of cars errrm I mean horses since their speed buff and they are still zooming around at the speed of well sport cars.
Also make movement speed the same for all races and be capped at say 100 dexterity(this dex hardcap being in reach of all races) and make movement speed difference between 10 dex and 100 dex alot smaller so that starting players dont feel like their feet is old and broken.

Decrease the dmg mitigation of armor to decrease the significance that gear has and in doing so decrease the amount of errors one can do while still surviving in combat due to gear.
And decrease the gap between molarium and Oghmium and everything inbetween to decrease the significance of high tier materials to reduce the significance of gear.

Decrease healing in combat by 50% across the board, pots, bandages and mage healing again to decrease the amount of errors players should be allowed to do while in combat situations to decrease the ability pure numbers has against player skill.

Decrease both blocking and slashing arc by 25% and increase sweetspot hits by 10% to increase the importance of precision needed to strike good hits. Make active training (which also increases the time spent actively playing the game) matter and have a impact on the player skill a player has in combat situations.

Decrease overall mount health back to how old horses used to have pre breeding to emphasize more tactical mount play and not blatantly ignoring it because a horse has HP of a small fortress. A mount should not have much more HP than a player does as its an animal getting hit with sharp weapons just like players are.

Balance weapons and handles seperate to ensure OP weapon combinations gets eliminated and to include as many viable combinations as possible, try to keep the same DPS on essentially all weapons balanced with how short and long they are. Longer weapons hitting slightly harder but also break way faster and using more stamina and be slower to use. Having complex crafting is not worth it unless all combinations are viable. Its no point in bragging about having millions of different combinations when a fraction is usable without putting the user at severe disadvantage. Diversity is king in MMOs as players want to be unique.

Balance armors better by making 3 categories light, normal and heavy. Light armors have mana regen as its bonus, normal have slower mana regen and heavy armor dont regen mana and have a 25% higher stamina use.

Make mounted combat only able to use 1h weapons while mounted for balance and realism.

Increase stamina use on swings by 25% decrease stamina use from running by 25% and increase stamina regen by 50%. If you spend all stamina have a 2 sec no stam regen before normal regen starts to punish players not paying attention to their stamina bar.


This is to promote active training, bring back player skill and increase the skill ceiling between untrained and trained combatants and reduce the significance of gear, numbers and in combat healing.

The general attitude against this type of balance is not to adhere to "PvP junkies" but changes like this will promote competitive players to return to the game. "PvP junkies" will not care about balance so long they get their PvP, however competitive PvPers will quit if they feel the game stacks against them with limitations of artificial nature such as gear, AI pets, mounts, etc.
Competitive players are the players most interested in PvP and rather want a small tight knit group aka special forces compared to normal soldiers, they strive to become the best fighters through active training combat during their play time opposed to those focusing on other parts in their play time.

The fact that gear, numbers, healing capabilities, pets and mounts have such an impact in combat opposed to player trained skill is why competitive players have quit the game and as such an active part of MOs roaming groups is now missing from the game creating stagnation and less activity.

Those players who dont want to spend most of their play time to hone their skills to be able to be "killing machines" and beat larger groups can still get satisfaction by being in large empire building guilds and will be able to counter smaller groups of elite PvPers as seen in MOs older times. But not having the option to achieve this or have these groups in the game takes alot out of the game.

If this is done properly and set in stone in MO, this can easily be tranferred over to MO2 when the time comes so that you dont need to spend time balancing combat in testing stages of MO2 like took alot of development time from MOs testing stages that could be spent on other sides of the game to get other MMO players interested in what they focus their play time on.

Most if not all of these changes are quick to do as most is simply changing numbers for instant results which can then be further tweaked until a nice spot is hit to then be locked with new items to be balanced accordingly easily without the long OP FOTM periods MO is so known for.

PvPers are easy to maintain once the core is in place and they will then stay and support the game while content is made for players needing a constant supply of new content which most competitive players dont need.

Here is 3 videos of high end metal users with low amount of in combat healing showing the competitive side of higher speed and lower gear dependancy in combat:

Combat was fast paced, high damage compared to gear mitigation and combat healing was limited compared to now with insane potions, high bandage healing and higher magic healing, player health has also been turned up since this time by almost 50% if I remember correctly.
I think I had 150hp or so on my Kallard build back then compared to over 200hp now.
Horses was used alot but they where not running fortresses with insane speeds doing insane damage. There is literally no excuse for horses to have so many edges as they have for years now.

Dawn is the last time players skill had any relevance in the game against equal geared players but that was only due to players using cronite/Tungsteel/Oghmium weapons on animal material such as scales. In the two videos here weapons are tungsteel/cronite on cronite armor.

Heres a couple Dawn videos for refference:

The main differences between these two eras was 7 hits on cronite with cronite and 5 hits on scales with cronite. More/higher in combat healing during Dawn but also more blocking mitigation during Dawn unless you used shield in the first beta era. Bandage healing was almost doubbled in the year difference.
But the speed difference is the biggest one and one that has alot of impact on combat effectiveness between a small group of skilled individuals with good teamwork against a large group of lesser skilled with less teamwork.
No disrespect to anything else that was said, but those stabbing weapons in the first 3 vids were the noobest thing i've ever seen, maybe noober than tm sledges on mounted.
 
Now with MO2 on its way it is the best time ever to fledge out combat and get it back on track according to the original vision of MO that being about individual player skill and not like traditional themepark MMOs thats based on either levels, gear or numbers.

Increase movement speed on foot by 25% as a start, prediction is no longer a valid reason to keep it as slow as it is today seeing as SV has not been decreasing the speed of cars errrm I mean horses since their speed buff and they are still zooming around at the speed of well sport cars.
Also make movement speed the same for all races and be capped at say 100 dexterity(this dex hardcap being in reach of all races) and make movement speed difference between 10 dex and 100 dex alot smaller so that starting players dont feel like their feet is old and broken.

Decrease the dmg mitigation of armor to decrease the significance that gear has and in doing so decrease the amount of errors one can do while still surviving in combat due to gear.
And decrease the gap between molarium and Oghmium and everything inbetween to decrease the significance of high tier materials to reduce the significance of gear.

Decrease healing in combat by 50% across the board, pots, bandages and mage healing again to decrease the amount of errors players should be allowed to do while in combat situations to decrease the ability pure numbers has against player skill.

Decrease both blocking and slashing arc by 25% and increase sweetspot hits by 10% to increase the importance of precision needed to strike good hits. Make active training (which also increases the time spent actively playing the game) matter and have a impact on the player skill a player has in combat situations.

Decrease overall mount health back to how old horses used to have pre breeding to emphasize more tactical mount play and not blatantly ignoring it because a horse has HP of a small fortress. A mount should not have much more HP than a player does as its an animal getting hit with sharp weapons just like players are.

Balance weapons and handles seperate to ensure OP weapon combinations gets eliminated and to include as many viable combinations as possible, try to keep the same DPS on essentially all weapons balanced with how short and long they are. Longer weapons hitting slightly harder but also break way faster and using more stamina and be slower to use. Having complex crafting is not worth it unless all combinations are viable. Its no point in bragging about having millions of different combinations when a fraction is usable without putting the user at severe disadvantage. Diversity is king in MMOs as players want to be unique.

Balance armors better by making 3 categories light, normal and heavy. Light armors have mana regen as its bonus, normal have slower mana regen and heavy armor dont regen mana and have a 25% higher stamina use.

Make mounted combat only able to use 1h weapons while mounted for balance and realism.

Increase stamina use on swings by 25% decrease stamina use from running by 25% and increase stamina regen by 50%. If you spend all stamina have a 2 sec no stam regen before normal regen starts to punish players not paying attention to their stamina bar.


This is to promote active training, bring back player skill and increase the skill ceiling between untrained and trained combatants and reduce the significance of gear, numbers and in combat healing.

The general attitude against this type of balance is not to adhere to "PvP junkies" but changes like this will promote competitive players to return to the game. "PvP junkies" will not care about balance so long they get their PvP, however competitive PvPers will quit if they feel the game stacks against them with limitations of artificial nature such as gear, AI pets, mounts, etc.
Competitive players are the players most interested in PvP and rather want a small tight knit group aka special forces compared to normal soldiers, they strive to become the best fighters through active training combat during their play time opposed to those focusing on other parts in their play time.

The fact that gear, numbers, healing capabilities, pets and mounts have such an impact in combat opposed to player trained skill is why competitive players have quit the game and as such an active part of MOs roaming groups is now missing from the game creating stagnation and less activity.

Those players who dont want to spend most of their play time to hone their skills to be able to be "killing machines" and beat larger groups can still get satisfaction by being in large empire building guilds and will be able to counter smaller groups of elite PvPers as seen in MOs older times. But not having the option to achieve this or have these groups in the game takes alot out of the game.

If this is done properly and set in stone in MO, this can easily be tranferred over to MO2 when the time comes so that you dont need to spend time balancing combat in testing stages of MO2 like took alot of development time from MOs testing stages that could be spent on other sides of the game to get other MMO players interested in what they focus their play time on.

Most if not all of these changes are quick to do as most is simply changing numbers for instant results which can then be further tweaked until a nice spot is hit to then be locked with new items to be balanced accordingly easily without the long OP FOTM periods MO is so known for.

PvPers are easy to maintain once the core is in place and they will then stay and support the game while content is made for players needing a constant supply of new content which most competitive players dont need.

Here is 3 videos of high end metal users with low amount of in combat healing showing the competitive side of higher speed and lower gear dependancy in combat:

Combat was fast paced, high damage compared to gear mitigation and combat healing was limited compared to now with insane potions, high bandage healing and higher magic healing, player health has also been turned up since this time by almost 50% if I remember correctly.
I think I had 150hp or so on my Kallard build back then compared to over 200hp now.
Horses was used alot but they where not running fortresses with insane speeds doing insane damage. There is literally no excuse for horses to have so many edges as they have for years now.

Dawn is the last time players skill had any relevance in the game against equal geared players but that was only due to players using cronite/Tungsteel/Oghmium weapons on animal material such as scales. In the two videos here weapons are tungsteel/cronite on cronite armor.

Heres a couple Dawn videos for refference:

The main differences between these two eras was 7 hits on cronite with cronite and 5 hits on scales with cronite. More/higher in combat healing during Dawn but also more blocking mitigation during Dawn unless you used shield in the first beta era. Bandage healing was almost doubbled in the year difference.
But the speed difference is the biggest one and one that has alot of impact on combat effectiveness between a small group of skilled individuals with good teamwork against a large group of lesser skilled with less teamwork.
There is no MO2

You have posted more stuff on MO2 then there has been code written for it.
 
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