Fix mangs

The entire premise of this post is disingenuous; Mangs aren't broken.

@Phaytal and those that are agreeing with opinion stated as fact, shame on you, be better.

This community is too forgiving on those that give manipulative and bullshit feedback to Devs.
There is an acceptance of the scummy tactic of taking advantage of the dev team that is uniformed and overworked. Every time that succeeds, the game gets worse. Players blame SV and take no responsibility for the necessary role of player feedback. We get the game we deserve.
 
Mang mechanics are shit. They shouldnt take damage from ranged attacks (fire arrows, elementalism) or invisible guards. By the time you can crank the mang, load it, and fire it, A SINGLE GUARD has already hit it for 25% of its HP. A SINGLE PLAYER with fire arrows can get it down the same amount. The game is not fun in its current state, the low population shows it. Its disgusting how an inferior group with lesser numbers can easily defend a siege force with 5 naked people shooting fire arrows and casting elementalism magic at stuff that is out of LoS. Seriously, how many support tickets do you guys get per siege asking for a mang refund for an invisible guard aimbotting down the siege weapon.

FIX MANGS!!!!!

They should only take damage from player melee and firing the boulders. If you want to defend your area, you need to fight for the siege weapon. Not sit behind poorly made hitboxes (some spots on the keep and safely defend your keep with FREE TO PLAY toons logged out with bags of fire arrows, bows, campfires and reagents.) 0 risk, 100% effectiveness. NPC AI system is terrible and you guys can never get it right. How can you allow a broken mechanic like AI shooting through walls and getting stuck under ground to MAKE OR BREAK the siege?

Think about it: any player retention you get from nooby island is going to want to get to end game, i.e. territorry control. What are these people going to think when they get there, and bugs and shit tier mechanics are ruining the siege for everyone involved?
The mangs shouldn't take damage from "invisible guards", or any AI that has gone through mesh. Other than that, disagree with other assertions.
 
Thread starter #24

Phaytal

Senior Member
I would like to hear RPKs reasoning as to why NPCs that have had problems for the last 10 years the game has been out can defend from a siege force better than the guild itself.

RPKs original stance on the current siege system is the same as my stance. Their original goal pertaining to the siege system was that they would aids up everything so much and PROVE that the mechanics needed to be changed. I guess Orn and company wouldnt even know since most of the original RPK members have moved on from the game. WeWinEveryday was the real RPK, and they wouldnt stand for any of this. After that community abandoned MO, anyone who mattered stayed and continued the RPK legacy. Like I said, their original goal when they took the keep that they DIDNT WANT was to prove that the sieging system is busted. Now that HERJ has taken over RPK and they enjoy their current status and territorry, they dont want to address the serious problems the game is facing.

I guess I will break this down for the less intelligent.

I suggested this because it seemed like the least impactful way to make sieging what a siege should be like. Instead of trying to fix AI, TC hitboxes, figure out a solution to prevent f2ps from holding the 3 items required to defend your assets, they can just do something simple and easily reverted such as preventing siege wepaons to take any ranged damage.

Other siege equipment is ineffective:
Rams only do real damage to wooden structures and gates, so they aren't practical as an end-game siege weapon. Trebs shoot fire, only good for destroying wooden structures and towers. They can't be readjusted once placed, so as a stationary tower killer with very little flexibility, they are also pretty much useless for end-game sieges. That leaves Mangs.

NPCs shouldn't attack siege weapons:
They cant get NPCs to work right, ever. Every iteration of 'AI fixes' has bounced from worse to manageable to aids. They are invisible, shoot through walls, have aim bot, cost almost nothing when they die, and are respawned within a few minutes. We had pets guarding the mangs around all sides, and still NPCs were spawning underground and instantly focusing the siege weapon. There is no counterplay to fighting the AI that are attacking your siege equipment.

Mangs should get hit from melee only:
-Fire arrows
Aids. The meta for siege defense has been to log out characters with bags full of campfires, fire arrows, and bows. Half the time, you can't shoot players on top of a keep due to the hitboxes of TC structures. Good luck trying to destroy their 10 silver campfires that they can buy at a vendor 5 seconds away. There is currently no way to invade the keep structure itself and take it over from the inside, being able to combat against any defense force on top of the keep. When you step inside, you get teleported out instantly. This is basically a safe zone for keep owning guilds. We were sending pets to attack players on top of the keep last siege, and they just kept bugging out, unable to go through walls like natural ai behavior. So we couldn't shoot the players that were firing arrows on top of the keep, we couldn't have our pets attack the players on the keep, so you are basically left with elementalism. Literally having kids air bursting at the same spot, hoping for rng of getting caught in the airburst and getting pushed more than once or twice to actually push a player off of the keep.
For the small brains:
How to defend a keep: log f2p chars out in a safe area with fire arrows, campfires, and bows. Place campfire down on top of the keep where it can rarely be shot, and even if you can hit it, they just drop another one. F2Ps can use bows and fire arrows just as effective as a premium player, so the possibility to defend any asset anywhere is real. Also place as many guard posts and alert towers with as many guards as possible.
How to resist a siege defense force: Shoot arrows back at the defenders, (oops i got hit once for 25 dmg, let me lay down behind the keep wall regen to full hp with my trusty campfire, and continue spamming fire arrows.) Spam airburst hoping that it randomly catches a player in the right way and knocks him off. (Seriously, air burst is too RNG of a mechanic to be the only way to actually get something done vs the defenders.) Send your pet in to climb up the wall of the keep and kill anyone on top (which shouldn't even be an option, and didn't even work last time.) Target the campfires themselves which can easily be replaced and rarely hit due to hitbox and topography of the map.

-Elementalism
Honestly, no real complaints here. Just tired of kids hiding behind walls shooting spells at me out of render distance. Don't really know much about it other than people are literally casting Cold, Peace, Cold, Peace, Cold, Peace. The entire siege. Not a very fun mechanic. I kinda like the idea of of shooting boulders into a massive group attacking your assets tho.

-Guards
NPCs shoot through walls, around corners, are invisible, spawn under the world, and have aimbot. Nuff said. If they ran into melee when targeting a siege weapon, we could at least do something about it.

Making a mang require melee for damage would simply bring the conflict back in a siege instead of being able to abuse broken mechanics to safely defend your assets. All of these mechanics seem good enough to repel the players themselves. If the players are in no real threat of danger, why should siege weapons be their biggest vulnerability? Siege weapons are supposed to be designed to make the siege easier. This era of NEEDING to protect the mang but being unable to is making no one want to siege, cuz the mechanics are poorly designed and full of bugs.

The entire premise of this post is disingenuous; Mangs aren't broken.

@Phaytal and those that are agreeing with opinion stated as fact, shame on you, be better.

This community is too forgiving on those that give manipulative and bullshit feedback to Devs.
There is an acceptance of the scummy tactic of taking advantage of the dev team that is uniformed and overworked. Every time that succeeds, the game gets worse. Players blame SV and take no responsibility for the necessary role of player feedback. We get the game we deserve.
Kid, you literally got kicked off the balance team first day cuz you're shit roleplayer that probably plays mounted. Don't ever @ me again if we're speaking balance. Mangs aren't balanced properly/is a broken mechanic fundamentally, so they need to be FIXED.

Happy thanksgiving everyone.
 
Why do you think mangs need to be fixed now? They've always taken damage from arrows, just now fire arrows are being used over regular arrows. Back in the day people would use regular arrows to break the mangs. Back then mangs also were stationary and had effectively unlimited shots at 8k damage per shot.

You think battering rams are useless? Then why are TOFU using them the most at their sieges? Because they unlock gates after the gate takes a certain amount of health loss.

My only problem with sieging is npc's that are not visible doing damage to myself or my siege weapon. I don't see them taking out or really changing elementalism so why bother even bitching about it? Why not learn how to counter-act it as that takes almost no effort and doesn't even ruin a mage build.
 
Thread starter #26

Phaytal

Senior Member
Man this is too juicy, I'm about to pick you apart like Mort does.

A single player cannot do 25% of a mangs life throughout the time it takes to fully fire 100 boulders, let alone before you can fire it once.
Alright, I over exaggerated on the player part.

Talking about player retention, do you think people will keep playing the game when whatever they build they have to be on 24/7 to defend?
Are you suggesting that players be able to keep their assets while they are offline? You realize Territory control is meant to be a hardcore aspect of this game, not pve build-a-base game where you can just log in to pay taxes and know your territory is safe.

And have to have the numbers to wipe whoever might want to siege them to stop the siege?
Numbers? So you are saying these mechanics are a way to prevent from being zerged down. But in every other aspect of the game the zerg is king and shits on everything. When foot fighting, the only way to fight a zerg is kiting. Getting zerged mounted vs mounted, you just run away to a safe zone. Pets promote zerging by allowing AI to chase down anyone trying to run from you, ignore terrain, infinite stam. Mounteds promote zerging by having double the stam bar as foot, as well as being twice as fast as anyone on foot trying to run away. The gear gap promotes zerging by being able to survive through stam bars of players attacking you, as well as nearly 2-3 shotting players, mistakes being forgiven. All of these mechanics you abuse and have no problem with. This has been the case for years, you don't ever see small groups anymore. It has been server wars and alliance zergs since TC came out. Yet you are worried about a group bigger than yours having an advantage in the siege game. I see what you are doing here.

The changes you are suggesting would reduce tc to whoever can log on the most people at server up, more than it is now.
I disagree, I think it won't affect ninja siegeing at all. Ninja sieges exist, in MO and in every game like it. Even RPK does it all the time. The only thing to stop them are siege timers, which SV clearly don't want. You can still shoot arrows from your walls at players and their molvas carrying the boulders, as well as casting magic at them from the top of your keep. Cut the boulder runners off en route. In my opinion that's plenty of resistance for a few players vs a siege force. There are so many different tactics but the only ones ever used are elementalism, guards, and fire arrows.

It will not make sieging fun, or full of pvp.
How would it not? You would actually get a chance to fight eachother over the siege equipment. Idk if you remember a few years ago, but there was a time when the game was populated and every fight (KEY WORD: FIGHT) over territory was decided over combat. Not whether or not you can survive through the hours and hours of boring standing around doing nothing. It is a video game, meant to be fun. The most fun sieges are the ones where you fight in open fields, or in mountains... away from TC nests. Gate fighting isn't fun. Standing around during a siege isn't fun. Shooting fire arrows on your keep isn't fun.

Making sieging easy will not bring population to the game.
I didn't suggest this change to make siegeing easier. I suggested this to fix a broken siege/tc system. And if it was considered easier, I do think it would bring population to the game. If siegeing was easier, more people would want to fight over the territory. Just like making it harder would make people not even want to bother.

Making sieging easy will not bring population to the game. It will just make TC easier to siege so less people will own it
People not wanting to own TC has nothing to do with siege mechanics. No one says "I don't own a keep because I'm afraid it will get sieged!" It's related to TC balance. Plenty of people have houses in really good spots that accomplish everything that a keep can. Completely irrelevant.
 
Thread starter #27

Phaytal

Senior Member
Why do you think mangs need to be fixed now? They've always taken damage from arrows, just now fire arrows are being used over regular arrows. Back in the day people would use regular arrows to break the mangs. Back then mangs also were stationary and had effectively unlimited shots at 8k damage per shot.

You think battering rams are useless? Then why are TOFU using them the most at their sieges? Because they unlock gates after the gate takes a certain amount of health loss.

My only problem with sieging is npc's that are not visible doing damage to myself or my siege weapon. I don't see them taking out or really changing elementalism so why bother even bitching about it? Why not learn how to counter-act it as that takes almost no effort and doesn't even ruin a mage build.
Why do I suggest changes when I think of them, irrelevant of time? Because the game is at an all time low, and for me this is the biggest problem I see. When the only thing I want to do are siege and fight for territory, and yet the defenders have the best advantage of defending their territory with VERY little effort.

I never said rams are useless in all purposes. They have no use in a siege where we have blown through all the walls to the keep, we don't need to open the gates when we could use a higher tier weapon like a mangannon. This isn't a thread about rams though.

Proposing changes is bitching now? Takes one to know one I guess.

Also, maybe you should reread my thoughts about elementalism. Seems like you didn't really grasp it.
 
Kid, you literally got kicked off the balance team first day cuz you're shit roleplayer that probably plays mounted. Don't ever @ me again if we're speaking balance. Mangs aren't balanced properly/is a broken mechanic fundamentally, so they need to be FIXED.

Happy thanksgiving everyone.
Much more clearly laid out, a good step.

So AI and hitboxes are broken, not mangs, that's why you wrote: "fix mangs". Don't.

Since you seem curious, my time with the balance team did come to an end, though after a couple of months, not the first day. That day was when your guildmate was invited into the discussion with the same hysterical, presumptuous, and biased feedback you're displaying here. It's harmful to the game you clearly love. Just take another couple steps back and you might see that.
 
i don't get why all these kiddos saying they dont want sieging to be viable. a lot of them commenting here threatening that if sieging was made possible they would blow up a bunch of southern keeps/palisades

that'd be awesome. that'd be pvp. i wish that would happen rofl.

i wish rpk would go to tofu and be able to destroy more than a single wall without getting shit on by 10,000 guards. would be fun for everyone but some people lost their brains hugging unsiegable tc towers i guess.
 

oykd

Senior Member
i don't get why all these kiddos saying they dont want sieging to be viable. a lot of them commenting here threatening that if sieging was made possible they would blow up a bunch of southern keeps/palisades

that'd be awesome. that'd be pvp. i wish that would happen rofl.

i wish rpk would go to tofu and be able to destroy more than a single wall without getting shit on by 10,000 guards. would be fun for everyone but some people lost their brains hugging unsiegable tc towers i guess.
right back at ya !
 
@Phaytal @SOAKED

Many of the mechanics you complain about have been well known and documented and they all have solutions (sorry, but we're not gonna spell it out for you). If you owned any TC you would have a better understanding. But then again, if you owned any TC you would also have something to lose and not enjoy the safety of your NPC town banks, NPC towns and the ability to log off with zero persistent risk.

Walls, Fire Arrows, Guards and Elementalism are anti-zerg, anti-ninja siege mechanics. Without mechanics such as these it really is just who can put together the biggest zerg or ninja siege the fastest.

Sieging is viable. We've taken out 3 keeps and multiple houses in just the past month. The only reason TOFU has a palisade is the fact that it's built on a node line. It also doesn't help that their palisade is right on the doorstep of Kranesh, grand central station for your server alliance. It's pretty sad day when a whole server alliance is calling Kran home. Oh how far Kran has fallen. I wonder what the original EC would say...

It's true that RPK today is nothing like the RPK of 2012. We only have 2 of the original RPK! actively playing. I mean, we're still hated by the entire server, but now we own The North and don't get our guild stone blown up every day by GUTS and ID. We're doing a whole lot better than those guilds though in 2018, so I guess we won.
 
@Phaytal @SOAKED

Many of the mechanics you complain about have been well known and documented and they all have solutions (sorry, but we're not gonna spell it out for you). If you owned any TC you would have a better understanding. But then again, if you owned any TC you would also have something to lose and not enjoy the safety of your NPC town banks, NPC towns and the ability to log off with zero persistent risk.

Walls, Fire Arrows, Guards and Elementalism are anti-zerg, anti-ninja siege mechanics. Without mechanics such as these it really is just who can put together the biggest zerg or ninja siege the fastest.

Sieging is viable. We've taken out 3 keeps and multiple houses in just the past month. The only reason TOFU has a palisade is the fact that it's built on a node line. It also doesn't help that their palisade is right on the doorstep of Kranesh, grand central station for your server alliance. It's pretty sad day when a whole server alliance is calling Kran home. Oh how far Kran has fallen. I wonder what the original EC would say...

It's true that RPK today is nothing like the RPK of 2012. We only have 2 of the original RPK! actively playing. I mean, we're still hated by the entire server, but now we own The North and don't get our guild stone blown up every day by GUTS and ID. We're doing a whole lot better than those guilds though in 2018, so I guess we won.
Hahahahah
 
@Phaytal @SOAKED

Many of the mechanics you complain about have been well known and documented and they all have solutions (sorry, but we're not gonna spell it out for you). If you owned any TC you would have a better understanding. But then again, if you owned any TC you would also have something to lose and not enjoy the safety of your NPC town banks, NPC towns and the ability to log off with zero persistent risk.

Walls, Fire Arrows, Guards and Elementalism are anti-zerg, anti-ninja siege mechanics. Without mechanics such as these it really is just who can put together the biggest zerg or ninja siege the fastest.

Sieging is viable. We've taken out 3 keeps and multiple houses in just the past month. The only reason TOFU has a palisade is the fact that it's built on a node line. It also doesn't help that their palisade is right on the doorstep of Kranesh, grand central station for your server alliance. It's pretty sad day when a whole server alliance is calling Kran home. Oh how far Kran has fallen. I wonder what the original EC would say...

It's true that RPK today is nothing like the RPK of 2012. We only have 2 of the original RPK! actively playing. I mean, we're still hated by the entire server, but now we own The North and don't get our guild stone blown up every day by GUTS and ID. We're doing a whole lot better than those guilds though in 2018, so I guess we won.
wut about axis, void jungle pally, roar, fall keep? you kids are delusional lol, if ur so pro at sieging why can u only siege unbuilt keeps and module 1 houses?
 
wut about axis, void jungle pally, roar, fall keep? you kids are delusional lol, if ur so pro at sieging why can u only siege unbuilt keeps and module 1 houses?
LOL. None of those targets are worth sieging. They all occupy worthless areas of the map that have nothing to do with our territory. Which is why those guilds built where they did; far away from RPK, in uncontested territory and close to all their allies. To siege any of those keeps/palisades you listed would require a pointless expenditure of resources and for RPK to give any fucks about them existing. And we don't.

We get plenty of fights in our own territory, it's part of the benefit of owning The North.
 
So Bakti keep is contested and worth sieging but fall, roar and axis isn't.. Huh.
 
LOL. None of those targets are worth sieging. They all occupy worthless areas of the map that have nothing to do with our territory. Which is why those guilds built where they did; far away from RPK, in uncontested territory and close to all their allies. To siege any of those keeps/palisades you listed would require a pointless expenditure of resources and for RPK to give any fucks about them existing. And we don't.

We get plenty of fights in our own territory, it's part of the benefit of owning The North.
Right, thats why you tried a bunch of times and always failed. What were you even contesting in old shop keep or bakti, lmao...

If by fights you mean staring from walls shooting fire arrows and elementalism, then Im sure you get plenty of them m8. We both know you specifically tell your members not to give fights to the alliance so they get bored and quit the game, the same strategy Aralis did.
 
Right, thats why you tried a bunch of times and always failed. What were you even contesting in old shop keep or bakti, lmao...

If by fights you mean staring from walls shooting fire arrows and elementalism, then Im sure you get plenty of them m8. We both know you specifically tell your members not to give fights to the alliance so they get bored and quit the game, the same strategy Aralis did.
blah blah blah. We dont complain when u bring 50+ people to siege GK keep, and fail. On the other hand, u complain all the time that sieging is hard, that RPK! is trash, and that ur left hand is not satisfying u so good as your right one. Grow some bones man.

PS Sexy got sieged just fine, its all about numbers anyway. we cant always attack with 0.5 force and win, but u cant attack with 2x bigger force and win at all.
 
blah blah blah. We dont complain when u bring 50+ people to siege GK keep, and fail. On the other hand, u complain all the time that sieging is hard, that RPK! is trash, and that ur left hand is not satisfying u so good as your right one. Grow some bones man.

PS Sexy got sieged just fine, its all about numbers anyway. we cant always attack with 0.5 force and win, but u cant attack with 2x bigger force and win at all.
lol like numbers mean anything when u guys ninja siege with 20+ at 5-6 am. And Sexy didnt have nearly as much guards as the other places I mentioned, you guys cant siege assets with good defenses either thats a fact.
 
blah blah blah. We dont complain when u bring 50+ people to siege GK keep, and fail. On the other hand, u complain all the time that sieging is hard, that RPK! is trash, and that ur left hand is not satisfying u so good as your right one. Grow some bones man.

PS Sexy got sieged just fine, its all about numbers anyway. we cant always attack with 0.5 force and win, but u cant attack with 2x bigger force and win at all.
Sorry we don't siege at server up on tuesdays.
 
Thread starter #40

Phaytal

Senior Member
Not a single reply with a good counter argument. Just insults being thrown. Pengas tried, but failed sadly. Anyone else?
 
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