Full Loot PvP- MO's Curse or Blessing?

It’s A blessing for sure in my opinion - it compliments the simple directional attack / block system and the medieval setting .

SV Just needs to continue with its hardcore feel / element and not give in to those that ask to make it easier or more convienant - as we can see that ended up in a “too safe” mortal Online due to convienant tc and such which then the game as a whole became stale for most due to aids sieging mechanics , other bugs / glitches , and unbalanced features (that I believe now mostly are fixed , but still some remain).
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
The time sink and risk is one thing that really draws me to MO that other games don't have. Everything in the game has more meaning. I value nearly every item that I have in my bank, or even that I find out in the world. Many other games have so much meaningless shit. Idk if its because you can never lose it or what...but MO just does it right.

I personally think the game has become less hardcore, drawing out more players than bringing in. The walls, roaming guards, and all the NPCs players can buy that were added to the game just really made things stale.
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
How many people wrote, I thought I wanted full- loot, but I realized after losing my gear, I don't. Suggesting it's a lack of investment misses more basic observable reasons and replaces it with speculation. That speculation is informed with bad data imo. Perhaps I'll be shown wrong. Perhaps more investment in the game will make people stay. As a long time player, I can say I've seen many quit because of design, balance, and lack of polish and never once due to full loot. They don't go to kitten'd, or theme parks.If anything, the intensity of full loot brings them back despite the flaws.
"If anything, the intensity of full loot brings them back despite the flaws" - then why is population an issue?

"How many people wrote, I thought I wanted full- loot, but I realized after losing my gear, I don't" - not what I said. What I did say: the problem isn't full-loot by itself, it's the investment vs loss ratio.

"As a long time player, I can say I've seen many quit because of design, balance, and lack of polish and never once due to full loot." - Again, not what I said. We can take the straw man you presented as accurate, I've yet to see anyone quit simply because it is full loot.

What I have seen is an abundance of people quit, even entire guilds, after having their assets destroyed in a single night after spending weeks/months building and investing.

Bringing me back to my point of investment vs loss.

In terms of new players, one only needs to look at steam reviews and see that people are fully aware of the full-loot mechanics yet the time and effort lost was too much to bear upon being killed.

You'll find a similar number of "staff is corrupt" "too buggy" comments but the harshness of MO certainly does it part in driving players away; even though they are fully aware of the premise of the game.
 
"If anything, the intensity of full loot brings them back despite the flaws" - then why is population an issue?

"How many people wrote, I thought I wanted full- loot, but I realized after losing my gear, I don't" - not what I said. What I did say: the problem isn't full-loot by itself, it's the investment vs loss ratio.

"As a long time player, I can say I've seen many quit because of design, balance, and lack of polish and never once due to full loot." - Again, not what I said. We can take the straw man you presented as accurate, I've yet to see anyone quit simply because it is full loot.

What I have seen is an abundance of people quit, even entire guilds, after having their assets destroyed in a single night after spending weeks/months building and investing.

Bringing me back to my point of investment vs loss.

In terms of new players, one only needs to look at steam reviews and see that people are fully aware of the full-loot mechanics yet the time and effort lost was too much to bear upon being killed.

You'll find a similar number of "staff is corrupt" "too buggy" comments but the harshness of MO certainly does it part in driving players away; even though they are fully aware of the premise of the game.
Instead focus bring new player to game i guess we should bring back the old ones who left , at least that is what I understood from u , right ?
 
Thread starter #26
"If anything, the intensity of full loot brings them back despite the flaws" - then why is population an issue?

"How many people wrote, I thought I wanted full- loot, but I realized after losing my gear, I don't" - not what I said. What I did say: the problem isn't full-loot by itself, it's the investment vs loss ratio.

"As a long time player, I can say I've seen many quit because of design, balance, and lack of polish and never once due to full loot." - Again, not what I said. We can take the straw man you presented as accurate, I've yet to see anyone quit simply because it is full loot.

What I have seen is an abundance of people quit, even entire guilds, after having their assets destroyed in a single night after spending weeks/months building and investing.

Bringing me back to my point of investment vs loss.

In terms of new players, one only needs to look at steam reviews and see that people are fully aware of the full-loot mechanics yet the time and effort lost was too much to bear upon being killed.

You'll find a similar number of "staff is corrupt" "too buggy" comments but the harshness of MO certainly does it part in driving players away; even though they are fully aware of the premise of the game.
Yes, though I directly quoted you, and built off of some of your points, I was continuing the thread of the discussion; is full-loot the curse Seb thinks it is?
To your points, I agree with all of them.
My question to @Sebastian Persson ; imagine Full-Loot is not a disadvantage, but an advantage, how would that change your thinking on designing the game?
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
SV Just needs to continue with its hardcore feel / element and not give in to those that ask to make it easier or more convienant - as we can see that ended up in a “too safe” mortal Online due to convienant tc and such which then the game as a whole became stale for most due to aids sieging mechanics , other bugs / glitches , and unbalanced features (that I believe now mostly are fixed , but still some remain).
Sorry to disagree, but if they simply continue without reverting things that make the game easier and more convenient, as you put it, having ended up with "too safe" TC and other things-- won't the game remain what you term "stale" with "aids" sieging and other "features"? Just continuing as is sounds as if it won't work.
 
Nobody here talking about difficulty? There's two primary reasons MO doesn't have a larger population, the games hard, pve is even daunting to most. Imagine trying to fight yourself when you started vs you now. Rs, Rust all of these games are "hardcore" but they're not hard. The learning curve on mortal is insane. This is the actual blessing/curse.

And Optimization, the game has trouble running well on anything other than a beast. I know plenty of ppl who would love to play, if they didn't get 5fps.

And Ironically enough, I think theres a lot of ppl who wouldn't care if the game was "full-loot". There'd be a lot less cowardice and a lot more pvp.
 
Full-loot at its core is not the problem. The implementation and balancing around this feature is the really challenging part and I believe MO falls short in this regard.
This can be said about all features in general of cause - it's all about how you do it but I believe MO really struggles with balancing its systems. There are so many different features which needs to work together and I think Henrik might have lost the battle in the end.
Its a tremendous task, i'll give him that.

So when we say that the new players can't handle this "hardcore" full-loot system, I believe the problem actually lies with how MO features this system and not that players don't "really" want it.
 
Thread starter #30
Full-loot at its core is not the problem. The implementation and balancing around this feature is the really challenging part and I believe MO falls short in this regard.
This can be said about all features in general of cause - it's all about how you do it but I believe MO really struggles with balancing its systems. There are so many different features which needs to work together and I think Henrik might have lost the battle in the end.
Its a tremendous task, i'll give him that.

So when we say that the new players can't handle this "hardcore" full-loot system, I believe the problem actually lies with how MO features this system and not that players don't "really" want it.
Do you have a specific example?
 
I think the missing piece in MO’s otherwise enthralling gameplay is that there isn’t enough sand and tools in the sandbox to support more variety of pursuits that may not involve combat.

We don’t have a living ecosystem where the world is “living and breathing” — I have yet to see an mmorpg, other than maybe Wurm Online, to actually implement this beyond using it as a now-meaningless marketing phrase.

There is no sense that the guilds feel like a kingdom or “nation” (as advertised on MO’s Steam page), I want to get the feeling that the territory owned by a guild is distinctly theirs, like how it is in Kingdom Come: Deliverance.

Cultural aesthetics need to play a larger part in how a guild expresses itself other than through building keeps and walls, pvp and sieging. It needs more character. We need distinctive items, motifs and decorations that show everyone “this is our guild”.

The average Joe player needs to be able to wear clothes of their choosing independent of their armour, I remember Henrik saying they’re looking at implementing a separate clothing tab in the paperdoll window where we can equip clothes. Don’t know what has happened to that.

Just what I can think of that I feel MO needs. Full loot pvp is definitely a blessing for MO, but as I pointed out earlier it needs way more sand and tools before it can make me feel that this is the world of Mortal as I passionately envisioned it to be when I first saw the game description and teaser way back in 2010.
 

Finnley

Senior Member
Full Loot PvP and the first person melee combat are MOs strongest points, not weaknesses.
I dont know a single player that quit because of full loot... i know a few that raged but they all quit for other reasons.

From the start the game only needed solid systems that encourage PvP and meaningful PvE, but instead we have got a TC system that disencourages fighting and really wonky AI.
Focusing more on those points i think they could have made a more successful game.

Concerning PvP:
There is very very little reason to PvP overall, conquest and holding land does not give you nearly enough benefit, its really only for ego.
For years the meta tactic was to find new broken unreachable spots to place TC towers in a wonky way so that no one can touch them, its prolly still like that and completely disencourages fighting over land. The only fight there is who finds the most broken spots.
There is no realm building, no alliance mechanics and overall little reason to get involved in politics or TC at all.

AI:
The world is not completely empty anymore but still the bigger picture is missing, whats the lore behind the dungeons or the different NPC "factions", there might be lore somewhere but definitely not in the game. Nothing happens in a dungeon, they are just fancy looking spawns.
The AI has no routines, very restricted logic, they don't have events or dynamic actions, they are just empty shells with a spawn point.
There are so many things you could to with towns, controlling guilds could upgrade or erect buildings, real estate, taxes, forbidden districts, guild owned districts, Tindrem senate, player emperor, endless possibilities, .

Overall i think SVs focus over the last years to appeal to a "normie" audience backfired, there are thousands of themepark mmos out there with more budget.
I think a lot of vets felt like SV was just adding alot of unnecessary new stuff to attract new players, while there was almost no progress with the main issues that the game has and this lead to a decline in the player base.

I understand its a small team and therefore changing of old systems is a really time consuming and risky task and i am also not condemning anybody here either, the MO dev team is great but there is really only so much you can do with such a small team.
 
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Finnley

Senior Member
i say what i want, i am really that mad
so begone attention seeker
 
Thread starter #37
Full Loot PvP and the first person melee combat are MOs strongest points, not weaknesses.
I dont know a single player that quit because of full loot... i know a few that raged but they all quit for other reasons.

From the start the game only needed solid systems that encourage PvP and meaningful PvE, but instead we have got a TC system that disencourages fighting and really wonky AI.
Focusing more on those points i think they could have made a more successful game.
The Faction system comes to mind. Sad.

Concerning PvP:
There is very very little reason to PvP overall, conquest and holding land does not give you nearly enough benefit, its really only for ego.
For years the meta tactic was to find new broken unreachable spots to place TC towers in a wonky way so that no one can touch them, its prolly still like that and completely disencourages fighting over land. The only fight there is who finds the most broken spots.
There is no realm building, no alliance mechanics and overall little reason to get involved in politics or TC at all.


Overall i think SVs focus over the last years to appeal to a "normie" audience backfired, there are thousands of themepark mmos out there with more budget.
I think a lot of vets felt like SV was just adding alot of unnecessary new stuff to attract new players, while there was almost no progress with the main issues that the game has and this lead to a decline in the player base.

I understand its a small team and therefore changing of old systems is a really time consuming and risky task and i am also not condemning anybody here either, the MO dev team is great but there is really only so much you can do with such a small team.
Agreed. I would also add, there is almost no reason to collaborate. Non-violent players have almost no value in this game anymore. Nearly all have left, and it's not because of meanness or full loot.
 
The Faction system comes to mind. Sad.


Agreed. I would also add, there is almost no reason to collaborate. Non-violent players have almost no value in this game anymore. Nearly all have left, and it's not because of meanness or full loot.
Eh Id say its mostly the violent pvp players who have left. Pve players hold the most power in the game now and they dont need to collaborate with pvpers to defend their stuff. Farm enough prom and gold, and you can recruit as many guards as you want to make your TC unsiegeable. Farm enough for a personal guard (DK) and you can kill even the best player in the game 1v1.
 

Finnley

Senior Member
Oh yeah i totally forgot about Suckducca...
Instead of fixing Myrland they added a completely new continent that is even more vacant and empty
 
Oh yeah i totally forgot about Suckducca...
Instead of fixing Myrland they added a completely new continent that is even more vacant and empty
All my red's are there, it's empty and clear and u can purn Mc and do some farming without running to any one for almost days u love it .

Murder count dropped from 222 to 90 now so I m cool oh yeah
 
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