Make walls cost prominence

Thread starter #1

Yeonan

Trial Member
Edit: i think having just walls cost prom would be ideal as others in the thread have brought up

I think we'd all agree TC is in an undesirable place. A big contributing factor is how easy it is to maintain given low upkeep costs on just about everything except mines, banks, and guards.

Once you get past the initial hurdle of placing structures, keeping them maintained is simply too easy and not costly enough.

One way of addressing this is to remove the gold/silver cost of TC structures maintenance (possibly purchase price as well) and instead add a prominence cost to every structure and vendor, including walls. What I believe this will do is limit how much guilds will be able to place and maintain compared to the current measly gold costs, especially given how easy gold is to accrue.

While prominence can be farmed at a decent clip as well i don't think it's quite as easy as making gold and I think it will encourage actively going out in the world and while it wont eliminate TC issues it may place a bigger constraint on what guilds are willing to place vs the cost.

If a guild wants to control territory it should be something they have to actively maintain as opposed to now, stuffing a treasurer with a few thousand gold and having it last for months (sieges not withstanding).

Let me know your thoughts, I think this might help with the overuse of TC, as well as incentivize people going out in the world. This is a bit of a 'rough draft' idea so let's not get hung up on numbers and cost for structures just yet, but focus on the pros vs cons of this type of system.
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Xunila

Cronite Supporter
I would agree if this would be for walls only. But should small guilds with some crafting table around and maybe a guild priest really should farm hundreds of PP per day? The priest's costs are 24 PP per day in the moment. Take 10 PP per building in average then all buildings if small guilds would go down very soon. If you take 1 PP per day and building then there really would be no need to change the system.

I would not like to end up in a game which only action is to farm PP.
 
Thread starter #3

Yeonan

Trial Member
I would agree if this would be for walls only. But should small guilds with some crafting table around and maybe a guild priest really should farm hundreds of PP per day? The priest's costs are 24 PP per day in the moment. Take 10 PP per building in average then all buildings if small guilds would go down very soon. If you take 1 PP per day and building then there really would be no need to change the system.

I would not like to end up in a game which only action is to farm PP.
Well as I said i don't want to get hung up on numbers because that's a balancing issue which would come down to what the devs think should be appropriate cost but i'm sure non-intrusive things like crafting tables could have very minimal cost.

And the flip side could be this would force people to *gasp* use towns for their crafting if they don't want to keep up with PP. Not to mention houses can now boast nearly all crafting tables and wouldn't be subject to the PP costs.
 
I am with Xunila on this. Walls, guards, priests and things of that nature sure.

I think gold is enough for things like crafting tables, stables, brokers ect. These types of things can be beneficial to everyone as long as they are not walled off.
 
I m interested how this thread will go " just to state @Xunila PP farming isn't a big deal for small number - large number guilds a 4 Hours at demon portal can Sustain prom for a large guild structure like Necropolis for a month so small guild tier won't be have a big deal with them ... Also sarducca is a prom mine same as it's a gold mine you probably know that well since u have a station there .

A large scale guild and afk empire's who have keeps and a large Tc Control won't have a problem with all tc cost prom since they already get prom from Capturing towns and City's " like nWo and bakti " for example and there regular selling for walker heads and mining items and rice Stack's etc that do provide them with both Coin and prom thing is we aren't year 2010 where prom was a big deal back then .

Summary is :

A small scale guild of 5 active players won't have any problem running a station or a pali under this system problems will only start if they decided to go to siege or wardec .... Just saying .
 
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...4 Hours at demon portal can Sustain prom for a large guild structure like Necropolis for a month...
What is the prominence cost per day for "Necropolis"? I'm curious.

I'm all for stone walls and metal walls costing prominence. Wooden walls should not have a prominence cost. I also think walls should require a Tier 3 TC Tower or Tier 3 Guild Stone to be placed.
 
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Thread starter #7

Yeonan

Trial Member
What is the prominence cost per day for "Necropolis"? I'm curious.

I'm all for stone walls and metal walls costing prominence. Wooden walls should not have a prominence cost. I also think walls should require a Tier 3 TC Tower or Tier 3 Guild Stone to be placed.
Why not wood walls?

Im liking the idea of only walls/gates costing prom as it leaves open TC much more desirable.

Also im a little hesitant to tie it to guildstone level since thats pretty easily achieved through f2p spamming.
 
What is the prominence cost per day for Necropolis? I'm curious.
A group of 5 player can Farm 4500 minimum prom in 1 hour in demon portal a party of 5 player's do such result in 10 - 15 min .

in 4 Hours you get around 36k of prom which is more than enough to Sustain a Large Guild Structure like Necropolis for a full month .

* you only need to make this Run one time minimum if we assumed u are an afk empire or small scale guild of 5 active player's .

* Side note * RPK isn't an afk empire or a pve Farming guild and not small scale guild So those 36k will be multiplied too hmmmm may be Triple " you do the math ;) "
 
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A player can Farm 4500 minimum prom in 1 hour in demon portal a party of 5 player's do same result in 10 - 15 min .

in 4 Hours you get around 36k of prom which is more than enough to Sustain a Large Guild Structure like Necropolis for a full month .

* you only need to make this Run one time minimum if we assumed u are an afk empire or small scale guild of 5 active player's .

* Side note * RPK isn't an afk empire or a pve Farming guild and not small scale guild So those 36k will be multiplied too hmmmm may be Triple " you do the math ;) "
First off, It's NICOPOLIS not Necropolis.

Second, it is impossible to farm 4500 prominence in 1 hour for a single player and even more difficult to farm that amount per person as the numbers increase. 4500 prominence per hour would require killing 30 Elder Demons at the rate of 2 minutes per demon with no down time. Even if you avoided the demons and just did demon eyes, you would have to kill 45 eyes in an hour. It takes 25 arrows fired at the rate of 2 seconds per arrow, meaning you would have 30 seconds of downtime between each kill to move from one target to the next (no looting, no screw-ups, no resting/eating). But even if you did manage to pull that off, there are not enough eyes or a fast enough respawn to keep up with that pace, especially if you increase the number of farmers.

Third, seeing how I'm one of the officers of RPK I know exactly how much prominence per day it costs to keep Nicopolis running. I was just curious how you were making such uninformed estimates. 1,200 prominence per day is a fraction of the cost. We just did the math two days ago. I know the math. It takes A LOT more than 16 hours of farming demons per month to keep RPK afloat. We spend almost 1,200 prominence a day on just guild and allied priests.

Last, I'm sure you're a nice guy and mean well but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and you're just misleading people by pulling numbers out of your ass and complicating a discussion with uneducated assumptions and false claims. What guild are you in anyways? Do you have any kind of experience or are you just talking out of your ass?
 
First off, It's NICOPOLIS not Necropolis.

Second, it is impossible to farm 4500 prominence in 1 hour for a single player and even more difficult to farm that amount per person as the numbers increase. 4500 prominence per hour would require killing 30 Elder Demons at the rate of 2 minutes per demon with no down time. Even if you avoided the demons and just did demon eyes, you would have to kill 45 eyes in an hour. It takes 25 arrows fired at the rate of 2 seconds per arrow, meaning you would have 30 seconds of downtime between each kill to move from one target to the next (no looting, no screw-ups, no resting/eating). But even if you did manage to pull that off, there are not enough eyes or a fast enough respawn to keep up with that pace, especially if you increase the number of farmers.

Third, seeing how I'm one of the officers of RPK I know exactly how much prominence per day it costs to keep Nicopolis running. I was just curious how you were making such uninformed estimates. 1,200 prominence per day is a fraction of the cost. We just did the math two days ago. I know the math. It takes A LOT more than 16 hours of farming demons per month to keep RPK afloat. We spend almost 1,200 prominence a day on just guild and allied priests.

Last, I'm sure you're a nice guy and mean well but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and you're just misleading people by pulling numbers out of your ass and complicating a discussion with uneducated assumptions and false claims. What guild are you in anyways? Do you have any kind of experience or are you just talking out of your ass?
Not impossible a 4500 pp = 36 demon I can do 4 on my Ma alone " naked and with a bone bow and a Donkey meh "me alone it will take 15 min + 4 more player's = 20 demon in 15 - 20 min , I m sorry wasn't clear 4500 pp in one Hour can be done by party of 5 player .... in 60 min we do around 7.5k and we can actually loot .... " I didn't but in count the appearance of someone who come to take us down and call down - resting or eating etc sorry for that " .

Second there are other ways to get prom side demon like selling artifacts and stacks of walker/ bandit heads / crops etc - capturing town - relics and mining items all of them do give prom I m sure u aware of those .

It's over ratings thing u claim farming demons fir a 16 hours u aren't invading there plane aren't you :oops:.

Last no I m not a nice guy not at all , actually I m n guy at all so :rolleyes: and I m not sure if u are an RPK but meh who Cares about what I think .

Yes some info here are Invalid for my own reasons but the Core of the idea is the same " which is it's not hard to farm prom and Sustain yourself even if you are a small scale guild " .

Be well and next time speak more politely else u get a nice ignore ... you been warned.
 
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I think we'd all agree TC is in an undesirable place. A big contributing factor is how easy it is to maintain given low upkeep costs on just about everything except mines, banks, and guards.

Once you get past the initial hurdle of placing structures, keeping them maintained is simply too easy and not costly enough.

One way of addressing this is to remove the gold/silver cost of TC structures maintenance (possibly purchase price as well) and instead add a prominence cost to every structure and vendor, including walls. What I believe this will do is limit how much guilds will be able to place and maintain compared to the current measly gold costs, especially given how easy gold is to accrue.

While prominence can be farmed at a decent clip as well i don't think it's quite as easy as making gold and I think it will encourage actively going out in the world and while it wont eliminate TC issues it may place a bigger constraint on what guilds are willing to place vs the cost.

If a guild wants to control territory it should be something they have to actively maintain as opposed to now, stuffing a treasurer with a few thousand gold and having it last for months (sieges not withstanding).

Let me know your thoughts, I think this might help with the overuse of TC, as well as incentivize people going out in the world. This is a bit of a 'rough draft' idea so let's not get hung up on numbers and cost for structures just yet, but focus on the pros vs cons of this type of system.
I see the problem you're addressing as an overuse of TC, and you're looking at the relatively low gold cost associated. A premise seems to be a lack of activity required to maintain these assets, and a belief that a prominence cost would require and therefore spur activity more than a gold cost.

Is that right?

A few things come to mind:
I don't know that I find an overuse of TC these days. The map is more open than it has been in years, the active player villages are a fraction of what they were years ago. Many existing palisades and villages are abandoned and decaying. As you say, put some gold on the NPC, log out.

Prominence vs Gold: prominence rewards particular pve activities, whereas gold comes from many different sources. It seems to me that prominence might bottleneck TC ownership to guilds that focus on PVE. That's not a good thing. It's a limit on the direction a guild can go that a gold requirement doesn't produce. If the recommendation was for something to be required for TC that can be purchased with Gold, like additional lumber, stone, metals, etc., that would allow the freedom to remain, while diversifying the cost to be more activity producing. That activity wouldn't even need to be within a guild, it would flow out to the market, which seems better.

As for the low activity, and decline in TC structures and villages, it would be nice to hear from people abandoning their assets as to why they no longer see a point in retaining it. The biggest example that comes to mind for me was when QUAD abandoned the north shortly after TC release. They fully fortified their assets and seemed to just get bored having to maintain it, especially with no challenge to their control.

This is a tangent that moves towards activity from player interaction, rather than the PVE angle, so feel free to ignore and continue building your ideas.
Add decay to TC requiring Wood, Metal, and Stone upkeep ,
Food for NPCs, Armor/Weapons/Regs for guards
Make guards/gatekeepers drop their daily salary on death.
Make the Guild treasury a pickable chest in the Guild house/keep
Create craftable ladders that require 3k black/iron/stone wood, steel, and 50 engineering. They last for an hour and have 200 HP.

This would not only make it so people need to be active to sustain villages, increase the demand for goods as villages grow, but also increase the risk of loss as they do so. A concept that used to be prevalent in MO, and has sense been lost. Fear and stagnation have triumphed in the design of TC.
 
Not impossible a 4500 pp = 36 demon I can do 4 on my Ma alone " naked and with a bone bow and a Donkey meh "me alone it will take 15 min + 4 more player's = 20 demon in 15 - 20 min , I m sorry wasn't clear 4500 pp in one Hour can be done by party of 5 player .... in 60 min we do around 7.5k and we can actually loot .... " I didn't but in count the appearance of someone who come to take us down and call down - resting or eating etc sorry for that " .
You're claiming to kill 60-80 demons in an hour with a group of 5 people. That's 1 demon being killed every 45 - 60 seconds.

I farm demons regularly. We also have some of the best farmers in the game farming demons for RPK (11 of the top 20 all-time prominence farmers are in RPK). I've spent ALL DAY with my guild farming demons and have never managed to make more than 30k prominence in a day with 10+ people farming most the day. What you're claiming just isn't practically possible, not even in theory.

Second there are other ways to get prom side demon like selling artifacts and stacks of walker/ bandit heads / crops etc - capturing town - relics and mining items all of them do give prom I m sure u aware of those .
Most of those methods are only available to keep owners and they're horrible ways to earn prominence for a guild. Picking rice and mining white opals is not what RPK does for prominence.

It's over ratings thing u claim farming demons fir a 16 hours u aren't invading there plane aren't you :oops:.
What I think you're trying to say: "It's an exaggeration claiming that farming demons 16 hours a month isn't enough prominence for upkeep. You aren't farming inside the portal, are you?" Even using your exaggerated claim of 7.5k per hour for 5 people (1.5k per man hour), it would take almost 100 man hours of demon farming per month to take care of the prominence upkeep for RPK. Of course we farm inside the portal.

Last no I m not a nice guy not at all , actually I m n guy at all so :rolleyes: and I don't think u are an RPK but meh who Cares about what I think .
If you don't know that I'm in RPK, then you don't know anything about RPK. You're just proving my point. And congrats on being a girl. ZFG

Yes some info here are Invalid for my own reasons but the Core of the idea is the same " which is it's not hard to farm prom and Sustain yourself even if you are a small scale guild " .
Many PvE guilds and crafting guilds have struggled to pay for prominence costs in the past (i.e. Ichorcorp, Shop). I just think it's not as easy to earn as you claim for it to be, in fact I know it isn't. And I just gave you two examples to back that up, I'm sorry if you're not familiar with them.

Be well and next time speak more politely else u get a nice ignore ... you been warned.
Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about (RPK prominence costs) and stop making unrealistic claims (Killing 60-80 demons per hour with a group of 5) and maybe you won't be offended when someone calls you out on your bullshit. That little twinge you're feeling that makes you want to ignore me; it's not me being rude, it's you being wrong. You'll be ok. Have a good day.
 
You're claiming to kill 60-80 demons in an hour with a group of 5 people. That's 1 demon being killed every 45 - 60 seconds.

I farm demons regularly. We also have some of the best farmers in the game farming demons for RPK (11 of the top 20 all-time prominence farmers are in RPK). I've spent ALL DAY with my guild farming demons and have never managed to make more than 30k prominence in a day with 10+ people farming most the day. What you're claiming just isn't practically possible, not even in theory.


Most of those methods are only available to keep owners and they're horrible ways to earn prominence for a guild. Picking rice and mining white opals is not what RPK does for prominence.


What I think you're trying to say: "It's an exaggeration claiming that farming demons 16 hours a month isn't enough prominence for upkeep. You aren't farming inside the portal, are you?" Even using your exaggerated claim of 7.5k per hour for 5 people (1.5k per man hour), it would take almost 100 man hours of demon farming per month to take care of the prominence upkeep for RPK. Of course we farm inside the portal.


If you don't know that I'm in RPK, then you don't know anything about RPK. You're just proving my point. And congrats on being a girl. ZFG


Many PvE guilds and crafting guilds have struggled to pay for prominence costs in the past (i.e. Ichorcorp, Shop). I just think it's not as easy to earn as you claim for it to be, in fact I know it isn't. And I just gave you two examples to back that up, I'm sorry if you're not familiar with them.


Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about (RPK prominence costs) and stop making unrealistic claims (Killing 60-80 demons per hour with a group of 5) and maybe you won't be offended when someone calls you out on your bullshit. That little twinge you're feeling that makes you want to ignore me; it's not me being rude, it's you being wrong. You'll be ok. Have a good day.
No one here claimed to kill 80 Demons per Hour Do the math again they be around 20 - 40 top " 60 is the ultimate number" if u are feeling lucky 7.5k prom but not 80 Dua ... besides back to my original statement the only thing I said / claimed is I alone can do 4 Solo in 20 min that will be 12 demon in Hour and with 4 more player's it's 60 demon "Supposedly and Logically without interference - Lags - glitches and with well trained men " if it takes you a 16 Hours to do what can be done in 4 - 6 Hours I m sorry For you truly I am " you should probably get better bow recipes - weapons and more use of Elemental / necro magic and you do far better and fast results just sayin " ... as For you being in RPK or not the fact is there are too many of you make it a pit Disturbing to Mark your names and taking by your earlier statement that prom cost daily is around 1200 or something like that in Necropolis " I like to call it that as it's the City of the Dead " I wasn't that wrong when I stated you have to get a 36k of prom to Sustain the Guild structure fir a full month ( 36000k ÷ 30 days = 1200 ) the only argument u and I are having here is about time line to achieve that much and amount of player's needed which isn't much irrelevant :) and I go with you and say it takes you a full day 24h gaming time " which is more than your 16 Hours " this means you can get your prom in 12 days "supposing you spend 2 hours farming prom and rest of day killing guild enemy's or do your thing " that simply an easy cake since you be farming around 3k per day meh not that hard in your case.

And when you saying RPK don't do those stuff " selling stuff for prom and etc " it's like saying people don't fart at all :oops: it's how things go in Mortal you may think you are PvP hardcore guild but fact is some jobs always needs to be done to Sustain some Structures it's simply how thing's works " logically " .

Last it wasn't me who talked about RPK Structures you were the Kind guy who was giving data all day all I did was giving a clear example about how a farming demons only can Sustain any guild big or small for some time since Sebastian and Xulina said it's being hard for player's to farm for prom I simply demonstrated an example be it a big guild or small they can get the required amount of prom if they willing to play hard and go for demons " reason I choses RPK Structures cos it's the biggest Structures owned by a guild in all game that still stand till now and mostly Sustained by farming demons alone :cool: " fact is you were the one who wanted to talk about RPK Structures and gave info about that to Prove you point " an info which isn't proven valid or not since idk who you are and tbh I don't care " .

Be well .
 
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No one here claimed to kill 80 Demons per Hour Do the math again
I did the math. Using your numbers.
...20 demon in 15 - 20 min...
Your words, not mine. There's 60 minutes in an hour. 60/15=4 or 60/20=3. 4x20=80 or 3x20=60. That's you claiming that 5 people can farm 60-80 demons in an hour. Like I'm suggesting, your math doesn't add up. I'm glad we agree.

I wasn't that wrong when I stated you have to get a 36k of prom to Sustain the Guild structure fir a full month ( 36000k ÷ 30 days = 1200 )
You were very wrong. By a factor of 4. Like not even close. Which is why your opinion of what it takes to maintain a large guild is uninformed at best.

And when you saying RPK don't do those stuff " selling stuff for prom and etc " it's like saying people don't fart at all :oops: it's how things go in Mortal you may think you are PvP hardcore guild but fact is some jobs always needs to be done to Sustain some Structures it's simply how thing's works " logically ".
But we don't use the treasurer for prominence. If we did, you would see some of our guild members names on the "Surplus" stat page. I can say with complete confidence that less than 1% of our prominence comes from the treasurer.

fact is you were the one who wanted to talk about RPK Structures
Actually...
PP farming isn't a big deal for small number - large number guilds a 4 Hours at demon portal can Sustain prom for a large guild structure like Necropolis for a month
I then asked what you thought RPK prominence costs were...
in 4 Hours you get around 36k of prom which is more than enough to Sustain a Large Guild Structure like Necropolis for a full month .
This is your estimate, your math, your argument and the root of the whole problem. First off, you completely overstated the rate at which prominence can be farmed (9k per hour in this case). Second, you completely underestimated the prominence cost of a RPK (by 4 times). Which when you put those two together makes your original argument complete bullshit. You can't just make up facts. But that's probably what you're accustomed to doing and just in your nature.

actually I m n guy at all so :rolleyes:
I can see now why you were sure to clarify your gender. I always reflect on the immortal words of Melvin Udall when trying to understand the mind of a woman. "I think of a man and take away reason and accountability."

Been fun chatting. Have a great day.
 
I did the math. Using your numbers.

Your words, not mine. There's 60 minutes in an hour. 60/15=4 or 60/20=3. 4x20=80 or 3x20=60. That's you claiming that 5 people can farm 60-80 demons in an hour. Like I'm suggesting, your math doesn't add up. I'm glad we agree.

You were very wrong. By a factor of 4. Like not even close. Which is why your opinion of what it takes to maintain a large guild is uninformed at best.

But we don't use the treasurer for prominence. If we did, you would see some of our guild members names on the "Surplus" stat page. I can say with complete confidence that less than 1% of our prominence comes from the treasurer.


Actually...

I then asked what you thought RPK prominence costs were...

This is your estimate, your math, your argument and the root of the whole problem. First off, you completely overstated the rate at which prominence can be farmed (9k per hour in this case). Second, you completely underestimated the prominence cost of a RPK (by 4 times). Which when you put those two together makes your original argument complete bullshit. You can't just make up facts. But that's probably what you're accustomed to doing and just in your nature.


I can see now why you were sure to clarify your gender. I always reflect on the immortal words of Melvin Udall when trying to understand the mind of a woman. "I think of a man and take away reason and accountability."

Been fun chatting. Have a great day.
Ok I like you :cool: yes it's been a Fun chatting have a nice day.
 

Hayasa

Honored Member
Hi, I make 1 stack of ogh in 1 hour... do the math, look into it, ya'll doing it wrong... this is what the prom debate sounds like... and no a solo person can't do 4,500 prom in 1 hour...
 
Hi, I make 1 stack of ogh in 1 hour... do the math, look into it, ya'll doing it wrong... this is what the prom debate sounds like... and no a solo person can't do 4,500 prom in 1 hour...
Nice way to but it yes true one can't do such thing but A group of 5 can , it was small mistyping so take it easy .... BTW Good to see yo around been long since we crossed path both on Forums and game .... Good Lord when some one mention Demons all RPK freak out :eek:
 
Thread starter #18

Yeonan

Trial Member
Well this thread went sideways quick.

I see the problem you're addressing as an overuse of TC, and you're looking at the relatively low gold cost associated. A premise seems to be a lack of activity required to maintain these assets, and a belief that a prominence cost would require and therefore spur activity more than a gold cost.

Is that right?
No the point isn't to spur any activity that's merely something i view as a positive side effect.

The main goal is to promote a higher cost vs. benefit analysis when a guild wants to place walls/gates. 5 silver a day upkeep is a pittance for upkeep on a wall for what kind of protection it can provide.

I do like the idea of deterioration and the need for mats but I view the prominence requirement as firstly; more appealing to players as it requires active engagement (aside from mining gems but this applies to all guilds not just keeps)

And secondly, because prominence can only be farmed in specific locations which are not impossible to wall off but compared to resource nodes given your idea, would be highly expensive to do and the rate of return would likely not be worth the trouble.

The way i look at it is this: Prom is something that can not be traded, requires active player input (for the most part), and is only accessible in specific locations, most of which would be very cost prohibitive to try and wall off.

Gold and materials have the opposite going for them. I can wall off trees and rocks, extract in safety, and farm a plethora of creatures to butcher in safety in order to make gold easily.

Prominence at least has the potential to funnel players into a limited number of areas and/or scenarios where it can be farmed AND if a loss of prominence is tied to losing a war, assets, or towers can be a real way to impact an enemy guild. Large or small.

Again i like the premise of your ideas but --"It seems to me that prominence might bottleneck TC ownership to guilds that focus on PVE" --

This statement doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my eyes because it does the same thing that you are afraid of my idea doing. It bottlenecks players into other areas of the game (mining, chopping, cooking etc.) which in my opinion are less engaging, less risky, and less rewarding to get involved in for the player.

TLDR: A guild that wants to build walls needs to partake in each aspect of the game or pay those that do. Neither idea would change that but given that PP can not be farmed at the same level of safety compared to gold/mats it instantly becomes the better option in my eyes.

It may take some balancing because surely there are the scenarios where a player can farm PP in relative safety (e.g. charuls in saducaa) but that's a simple balancing act. Further reduce what gives PP. Make it only "boss" creatures, make it only certain "boss" creatures. That will by default create PvP hotspots which people crave and at the same time reward a guild for taking risks and performing well (pvp and pve).
 

Speznat

Senior Member
IM with Xunila,

Only pp upkeep for walls would be fair.
For any tc stuff it would be to hard for smaller guilds.
I would say 3pp per wall per day is okay.
 
especially with no challenge to their control.
What?

They were being raided almost daily for deed drops by RPK!, they were being destroyed by just RPK! and this is when RPK! lived out of a shed.

They had to call in ID and their allies to come save them, but RPK! was able to harvest 2 mangs worth of deeds before anyone showed, RPK! was making a fortune off of QUAD TC and this was happening almost daily, QUAD TC was a smorgasbord of deed drops

QUAD had to either decon their own TC themselves or eventually lose it all to RPK!, QUAD didn't just fade away quietly, they were being eaten alive.

My favorite part of it all was when QUAD would beg for help from the ID alliance to come save them from RPK!
 
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