Make walls cost prominence

Xunila

Cronite Supporter
Probably the demon place is the only place on the map where you can farm that many PP in short time. So please don't use this one and only location for your calculation of good PP costs for TC buildings.

I don't know any place Sarducca with such a large number of NPCs with high PP values. E.g. there is the Dev Murah with 42 PP but a certain respawn rate. Then we have Lesser Charul with 24 PP but again with a respawn rate and nothing else around. Other NPCs like Sators give only 1 PP. And Green Kurnas give some PP (don't remember the right value yet) but again only about 3 or 4 at a spot and long distance to the next spot.

And in large areas of the world those PP farming gets even more difficult because of distances or NPCs with very low PP.
 
Probably the demon place is the only place on the map where you can farm that many PP in short time. So please don't use this one and only location for your calculation of good PP costs for TC buildings.

I don't know any place Sarducca with such a large number of NPCs with high PP values. E.g. there is the Dev Murah with 42 PP but a certain respawn rate. Then we have Lesser Charul with 24 PP but again with a respawn rate and nothing else around. Other NPCs like Sators give only 1 PP. And Green Kurnas give some PP (don't remember the right value yet) but again only about 3 or 4 at a spot and long distance to the next spot.

And in large areas of the world those PP farming gets even more difficult because of distances or NPCs with very low PP.
well, you can chain farm charuls easy, just sayin. there are enough of em, if u know the place.
 
Probably the demon place is the only place on the map where you can farm that many PP in short time. So please don't use this one and only location for your calculation of good PP costs for TC buildings.

I don't know any place Sarducca with such a large number of NPCs with high PP values. E.g. there is the Dev Murah with 42 PP but a certain respawn rate. Then we have Lesser Charul with 24 PP but again with a respawn rate and nothing else around. Other NPCs like Sators give only 1 PP. And Green Kurnas give some PP (don't remember the right value yet) but again only about 3 or 4 at a spot and long distance to the next spot.

And in large areas of the world those PP farming gets even more difficult because of distances or NPCs with very low PP.
You are Forgetting the Siodon warriors - charule Dungeons - spider and ratzar Queens - and the pit mob's etc those are decent pp
 

oykd

Senior Member
been farming demons idk since i start play the game ! never manage to kill more than 15 elder demons in 1h becouse cmon....
 
Well this thread went sideways quick.



No the point isn't to spur any activity that's merely something i view as a positive side effect.

The main goal is to promote a higher cost vs. benefit analysis when a guild wants to place walls/gates. 5 silver a day upkeep is a pittance for upkeep on a wall for what kind of protection it can provide.

I do like the idea of deterioration and the need for mats but I view the prominence requirement as firstly; more appealing to players as it requires active engagement (aside from mining gems but this applies to all guilds not just keeps)

And secondly, because prominence can only be farmed in specific locations which are not impossible to wall off but compared to resource nodes given your idea, would be highly expensive to do and the rate of return would likely not be worth the trouble.

The way i look at it is this: Prom is something that can not be traded, requires active player input (for the most part), and is only accessible in specific locations, most of which would be very cost prohibitive to try and wall off.

Gold and materials have the opposite going for them. I can wall off trees and rocks, extract in safety, and farm a plethora of creatures to butcher in safety in order to make gold easily.

Prominence at least has the potential to funnel players into a limited number of areas and/or scenarios where it can be farmed AND if a loss of prominence is tied to losing a war, assets, or towers can be a real way to impact an enemy guild. Large or small.

Again i like the premise of your ideas but --"It seems to me that prominence might bottleneck TC ownership to guilds that focus on PVE" --

This statement doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my eyes because it does the same thing that you are afraid of my idea doing. It bottlenecks players into other areas of the game (mining, chopping, cooking etc.) which in my opinion are less engaging, less risky, and less rewarding to get involved in for the player.

TLDR: A guild that wants to build walls needs to partake in each aspect of the game or pay those that do. Neither idea would change that but given that PP can not be farmed at the same level of safety compared to gold/mats it instantly becomes the better option in my eyes.

It may take some balancing because surely there are the scenarios where a player can farm PP in relative safety (e.g. charuls in saducaa) but that's a simple balancing act. Further reduce what gives PP. Make it only "boss" creatures, make it only certain "boss" creatures. That will by default create PvP hotspots which people crave and at the same time reward a guild for taking risks and performing well (pvp and pve).
I see. I suppose my preference would be that walls are less effective (can be bypassed with a ladder), and guards become a potential vulnerability if spammed (provide loot drawn from their owner's treasury), rather than increasing their cost to justify how effective they are currently. I see them as just too effective, regardless of the cost.

In terms of paying for it, before TC launched Seb actually discussed Prom/Gold and material costs with the community. The discussion focused around maintaining healthy village population. Might be worth digging up in the forums if you want to know where SVs head was at.

As it is, lumbermills and mines shouldn't yield anything more than a gathering buff, maybe refresh nodes faster as well. This game was supposed to be about players not NPCS, and before TC, new players would butcher, produce rocks, lumber, and metals, to get their first income. The game supports that entry level work, everyone benefits from that. To the point of these things not being risky, that's due to the effectiveness of guards and walls. All of these activities were risky in the past. With ladders, there would be risk everywhere. Risk from players.

Further, I'm not sure "Prom farmer" is going to be a valued and easily accessible path for newbs, and again, puts an emphasis on PVE, which isn't everyone's preferred path in MO. I'll go further and say, I don't want to boss fight, or ever tell my guild they need to go do a dungeon raid 1000 times in order to have a village that is completely safe unless there is a siege. A sprawling Empire needs prom, the rest of us can ignore it. That's working pretty well imo. Again, this is just preference.
 
Thread starter #26

Yeonan

Trial Member
I see. I suppose my preference would be that walls are less effective (can be bypassed with a ladder), and guards become a potential vulnerability if spammed (provide loot drawn from their owner's treasury), rather than increasing their cost to justify how effective they are currently. I see them as just too effective, regardless of the cost.

In terms of paying for it, before TC launched Seb actually discussed Prom/Gold and material costs with the community. The discussion focused around maintaining healthy village population. Might be worth digging up in the forums if you want to know where SVs head was at.

As it is, lumbermills and mines shouldn't yield anything more than a gathering buff, maybe refresh nodes faster as well. This game was supposed to be about players not NPCS, and before TC, new players would butcher, produce rocks, lumber, and metals, to get their first income. The game supports that entry level work, everyone benefits from that. To the point of these things not being risky, that's due to the effectiveness of guards and walls. All of these activities were risky in the past. With ladders, there would be risk everywhere. Risk from players.

Further, I'm not sure "Prom farmer" is going to be a valued and easily accessible path for newbs, and again, puts an emphasis on PVE, which isn't everyone's preferred path in MO. I'll go further and say, I don't want to boss fight, or ever tell my guild they need to go do a dungeon raid 1000 times in order to have a village that is completely safe unless there is a siege. A sprawling Empire needs prom, the rest of us can ignore it. That's working pretty well imo. Again, this is just preference.
I'm... a little confused. You dont want players "forced" into PvE (which they wouldnt unless they wanted walls) but you are ok with forcing them into mining and chopping?

I actually agree i'd rather see ladders or an easier way to bypass walls and guards be less effective or used as a crutch.

But, You keep going back to the point of "putting an emphasis on PvE" yet currently TC puts an emphasis on the worst kind of grind, chopping and mining. Sure it's easy to do, but it's much less engaging then anything else in the game and can be done behind walls with minimal risk and i think we'd agree that's not ideal.

And for what it's worth "I'm not sure "Prom farmer" is going to be a valued and easily accessible path for newbs".. noobs aren't spending 500+g on walls in the first place. By the time a player is ready to start placing walls/TC I think it's safe to say they've passed the threshold of noob status, so the requirement to farm a little prom will most likely not be a limiting factor.

I'd be in favor of only walls costing prom so a guild wouldn't need to be farming prom 24/7 if they'd like to have a little village, they would just have to do it sometimes. Much like your decay idea which would force them to gather sometimes but not all the time. It's not much different then it is now, guilds must gather mats and gold in order to build, both of which can be done in relative safety. Gathering prom at least leaves you exposed while doing it.

I guess i'm being pragmatic here as opposed to idealistic. I'd much prefer the decay system you presented with ladders, but I don't think players would be very open to that given how a common complaint is about the grind of gathering as is. That and the devs haven't expressed much interest in ladders being implemented. The most realistic option in my mind is to make walls less affordable which may actually lead to more raiding by proxy.

But as always; appreciate the discussion.
 
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Hayasa

Honored Member
Nice way to but it yes true one can't do such thing but A group of 5 can , it was small mistyping so take it easy .... BTW Good to see yo around been long since we crossed path both on Forums and game .... Good Lord when some one mention Demons all RPK freak out :eek:
all? hardly... I finally reset my password after that mishap a while ago, which lead me to take a 6 months break, Christmas is cumming so you know how it is, I got maybe 3-4 months of messing with people till I'm on break again...

But your assumption of 5 implies there is nonstop constant spawns, and perfect killing... so in theory, but reality is no... sorry... btw I got more ogh than Juice
 

Hayasa

Honored Member
well, you can chain farm charuls easy, just sayin. there are enough of em, if u know the place.
time yourself and come back, infact make a 1 hour video of it
 
Most small trading guilds don`t farm for prominence , so you want to make it harder for them, there is not many player towns left anymore, with this idea, the rest will fall away.
 
Most small trading guilds don`t farm for prominence , so you want to make it harder for them, there is not many player towns left anymore, with this idea, the rest will fall away.
I imagine for most of them it would be an improvement.

 
Thread starter #31

Yeonan

Trial Member
Most small trading guilds don`t farm for prominence , so you want to make it harder for them, there is not many player towns left anymore, with this idea, the rest will fall away.
The better option is to have those guilds be able to mine and chop in nearly complete safety at a few silver per day?

What has that done to help to population?

An old dev for another game once said: stagnation = death.

Safe farming with minimal upkeep, things get stagnant pretty quickly.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
An old dev for another game once said: stagnation = death.

Safe farming with minimal upkeep, things get stagnant pretty quickly.
And what was that other game?

Just curious.
 
The better option is to have those guilds be able to mine and chop in nearly complete safety at a few silver per day?

What has that done to help to population?

An old dev for another game once said: stagnation = death.

Safe farming with minimal upkeep, things get stagnant pretty quickly.
No one cares to Fight or do sieges like old times People just to be a Carebear and farm / mine / woodcut etc no fun at all meh they should make the game as mortal offline not mortal online :confused:
 
But at least i was paying 4 subs and enjoying myself and making mats for the community.
 
The game has gone worse , because those idiots sv, listen to the wrong people and now the npc nerf has made it worse for player towns, if there are any left.
 

Teknique

Junior Member
But at least i was paying 4 subs and enjoying myself and making mats for the community.
You were in business you knew there were risks. You got sieged and quit what does that have to do with the prominence thing.

Don't get me wrong i'd prefer you came back

The game has gone worse , because those idiots sv, listen to the wrong people and now the npc nerf has made it worse for player towns, if there are any left.
did sv siege you?
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
Or only allow stone and metal walls for keeps. Wood walls for everyone else.

Thats IF walls have to even stay in the game.
 
The better option is to have those guilds be able to mine and chop in nearly complete safety at a few silver per day?

What has that done to help to population?

An old dev for another game once said: stagnation = death.

Safe farming with minimal upkeep, things get stagnant pretty quickly.
Couldn't agree more. Though, the change to that equation should not be to make safe farming high upkeep. That's just as stagnant but increases the grind and burnout.


Risky (from players) farming for good rewards sounds much better for everyone involved.


#raidingpatch2019
 

Hayasa

Honored Member
You were in business you knew there were risks. You got sieged and quit what does that have to do with the prominence thing.

Don't get me wrong i'd prefer you came back



did sv siege you?
damn, you're a trial memeber
 
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