More info on MO2 please

Thread starter #1
@Henrik Nystrom @Sebastian Persson @Herius

Dear SV,

I think this thread will represent the views of many in the community. It is a simple one, and we hope for the love of the game you will do us the honour of providing more information about MO2.

It is almost June, and the last time we heard anything about MO2 was sometime in February — About 3 months ago. That is a long time in the world of news on a game, and I think the community has been very patient and willing to continue following the game despite the long period of silence.

We understand you have told us about some sort of NDA that prevents you from releasing any information about MO2. Perhaps you could tell us at least something about the state of development, perhaps show us a photo of the team hard at work, Henrik waving from behind a monitor in the background, anything that isn’t bound by the NDA — Just keep us in the loop, we are metaphorically dying here, including yours truly.

We are grateful for the weekly screenshots and trailer for the newbie island, as was requested. Now, we ask simply that you would do the same for MO2. We love MO. We love SV. As long as you keep the game up and running, and keep working on it, some or many of us will continue to play it. Why? Because we love the game that you have created. It is an enduring title that stands on its own in the MMORPG space.

All we ask in return is that you do us the honour of providing more regular updates and news on the state of development for MO2. We the community will love you for it.


Signed with passion and hope,
finegamingconnoisseur

(To the community: Feel free to sign by adding your reply to this thread)
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
Frankly, its just stupid at this point.

What they have told us so far amounts to:

"sometime in the near future we are going to launch MO2 where some of your stuff may or may not transfer, in the meantime we're going to go silent and work on noob island. Hope you like these screenshots"

Ive probably been in the fanboy camp the past few years but i couldnt think of a better way to kill this game then how SV has gone about this.
 

Vaith

Senior Member
I think they only announced MO2 because of the nature of how the company is listed they HAVE TO share this information with investors etc

I believe if they got to choose, they would not announce it this early. I also dont think they have much/any information to share with the community at this point about MO2.

So stop asking for MO2 information, they know we want information and im sure they are eager to share information when they have information to share.

Do you honestly think they are reading the forums and see a thread asking for MO2 information and go "Aaaah they want information, why didnt you just ask earlier?"
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
I also dont think they have much/any information to share with the community at this point about MO2.
Not even a clear plan? Simple goals of what they have in mind?

If thats the case then thats all i need to hear
 
I don’t envy SVs situation here. They’re going to piss off a bunch of people no matter what door they choose.

Even though SV may not be in a position to 100% know what they can promise about MO2, I think it would do some good to issue at least one more statement to the player base as to their best guess to what they’re aiming for with MO2. Mortal Online has always been a bit of a guessing game anyway!

Must be very clear about future intent of money, property, material and reputation transfer or lack thereof. The core sticking point for a lot of people.

For myself, so long as MO stays sandbox, I’m in for MO2 no matter what circumstances.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
One small piece of information about MO2 that's been shared by Herius & after that forgotten while folks keep on talking about how little Star Vault will say about their progress is: Haven will be part of it. Hypothetically, it will be the first part of MO2 (when it arrives) that new players experience-- the arrival of MO2 is the hypothetical part. ;) It will look different, naturally, in the next UE engine, but very likely work about the same.
  • In that sense, we are getting regular updates, but most remain unsatisfied.
As someone^^ who reads a Swedish news-paper every morning with a hot beverage while getting a pedicure might say, SV has to share news of this reworking of the game with current & potential investors because of regulations for companies listed as they are; if they'd had any other choice, they would have kept quiet about this new development track until later, when there would (again, hypothetically) be more to show. Stockholders > Customers.:cool: Funny story: The only Star Vault stockholder that I know at all well isn't playing the game anymore nor ever will again. :shrug:
 
@Favonius Cornelius

Please don't state that MO is a sandbox. That is the fundamental reason why SV can't retain players. For MO to be sandbox it needs to provide non-PvP play-styles with an actual payoff that is unrelated to PvP.
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
@Favonius Cornelius

Please don't state that MO is a sandbox. That is the fundamental reason why SV can't retain players. For MO to be sandbox it needs to provide non-PvP play-styles with an actual payoff that is unrelated to PvP.
What do you mean by "an actual payoff"?

There are non-pvp playstyles, the problem is they are not fun and engaging for the most part.
 
@Yeonan

Very good question and not that easy to answer.

What makes anyone play a particular game after the first time?

In my opinion, you will keep playing while you are striving towards a goal or competing. That can be to experience different features, achieve a high score, improve a K/D ratio, complete a map, quest or storyline, capture a settlement, achieve a title etc. You need to be able to "win" or "lose" in some form or another.

Or, the holy grail, each experience is dynamic and thus different from the last. I don't think that is really possible for non-PvP, so you need an overarching goal in non-PvP. PvP is inherently dynamic and competitive, that is why FPS games are popular.

MO is a RPG, territory control game. So I think the "win" condition should be related to that.

How would you change non-PvP to be influential in territory control?
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
@Yeonan

Very good question and not that easy to answer.

What makes anyone play a particular game after the first time?

In my opinion, you will keep playing while you are striving towards a goal or competing. That can be to experience different features, achieve a high score, improve a K/D ratio, complete a map, quest or storyline, capture a settlement, achieve a title etc. You need to be able to "win" or "lose" in some form or another.

Or, the holy grail, each experience is dynamic and thus different from the last. I don't think that is really possible for non-PvP, so you need an overarching goal in non-PvP. PvP is inherently dynamic and competitive, that is why FPS games are popular.

MO is a RPG, territory control game. So I think the "win" condition should be related to that.

How would you change non-PvP to be influential in territory control?
I wouldn't change the way non-PvP plays out. I would simply make it more engaging and enjoyable on a day to day basis.

Non-PvP offers plenty of long-term goals, and there are plenty of activities that have rewards that aren't soley related to pvp

And thats what makes MO a sandbox. You can choose a goal and "win" in that context
 
@Favonius Cornelius

Please don't state that MO is a sandbox. That is the fundamental reason why SV can't retain players. For MO to be sandbox it needs to provide non-PvP play-styles with an actual payoff that is unrelated to PvP.

Well, times are easier now than ever before for non PvP folks like myself. In fact it’s the only way I play and always have played. With the game population where it is right now, I feel like MO plays more like how it started where people with actual know how in crafting are kind of rare. Merchants and crafters are even more valuable during dark ages.

I figure that’s also the nice thing about an MO 2. It sounds like they just want to more or less transfer everything over to a new build but all elements of the game are otherwise retained. In other words, their game development can pick up where it left off, and SV adds features as much as they can.
 
Thread starter #13
Well, times are easier now than ever before for non PvP folks like myself. In fact it’s the only way I play and always have played. With the game population where it is right now, I feel like MO plays more like how it started where people with actual know how in crafting are kind of rare. Merchants and crafters are even more valuable during dark ages.

I figure that’s also the nice thing about an MO 2. It sounds like they just want to more or less transfer everything over to a new build but all elements of the game are otherwise retained. In other words, their game development can pick up where it left off, and SV adds features as much as they can.
With many games these days re-releasing themselves with the sub-title Remastered, Enhanced Edition or some other such nomenclature, MO2 may be SV’s attempt to bring MO1 into the next decade. By the way things look, it appears to point in that direction with Tindrem overhaul, and the newbie island looking stunning graphics-wise.
 
I wouldn't change the way non-PvP plays out. I would simply make it more engaging and enjoyable on a day to day basis.

Non-PvP offers plenty of long-term goals, and there are plenty of activities that have rewards that aren't soley related to pvp

And thats what makes MO a sandbox. You can choose a goal and "win" in that context
To make crafting more engaging long-term you would need to introduce a dynamic element. You would require a design whereby a player has to manually resolve crafting problems brought out by the materials used during the process. Maybe low quality weapons etc can be auto produced but higher quality requires a player to spend 2 hours manually crafting and resolving these dynamic problems.

Don't get me wrong, I like that idea, but you need to do this for almost all crafting, harvesting activities. That is a massive investment of developer time and the outcome of a fun process is not assured. And I have my doubts that even that can be engaging long-term before it gets boring. There really needs to be a competitive end state.

Or how would you make non-PvP more engaging?

What long-term goals are there for non-PvP? How do you "win" non-PvP currently?

Not being dick, I want to understand what you mean.
 
@Favonius Cornelius

I hope you are right.

Unfortunately I don't think the non-PvP crafting or harvesting mechanics can provide sufficient emotional payoff by themselves to keep most people engaged. Initially of course it can; players are learning the recipes, mechanics and developing their character but after a few months they have done 90% of that. What then?

Ultimately, there is a hard cap as to how well you can craft. Maybe I am wrong. Stockpiling gold has no purpose. Where is the "win"?

PvP can exert political influence and military power over territory. What does a master crafter have? Other than the dubious claim that you are not murdered on sight because you are known as a crafter.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
ATTN: Of course, below, I don't mean everyone.
Where is the "win"?
You forgot about griefing, bragging, and forum trolling / meme warfare. After close observation of many players, how they communicate, what they seem to enjoy, what they pursue, you'll find that a large lot of them, particularly a large lot of those still playing, are getting most of their satisfaction from these kinds of things, mentionable & unmentionable.

Someone once called MO a Griefer's Paradise (several someones, IIRC). If that's the source of someone's payoff for the game,
  • then gold that they don't have enough needs to spend on doesn't matter.
  • Keeps? Don't need to keep them. Build if you want, but do it to piss others off or block them.
  • Time spent having to tediously craft? Not an issue.
  • Low population? Just more "winning".
  • As long as others are dissatisfied, it's hard for them to be anything but satisfied. (An elegantly simple strategy for Winning Every Day.)
  • And, those would be the folks most nearly convinced that it's fine like it is and declaring fervently that nothing's going to happen to change the basis of the game.
...(T)he dubious claim that you are not murdered on sight because you are known as a crafter.
Damned right it is dubious. I keep trying to believe it, and I can't.

There was a guy on my server in SWG who used to say "Economics is my warfare", and who did both command respect and have very few who were foolish enough to attack him-- but he was actively protected by his customers, rich and poor, Rebel and Imperial alike (and he had, for reasons of game mechanics, the capability of producing goods that were definitely and objectively superiour to anything else available). I don't see that believably happening here, and I don't see *how* it could happen here.
 
Last edited:
@Najwalaylah

That type of personality is definitely more likely to survive and find some enjoyment in the PvP-farm-grind which is MO.
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
To make crafting more engaging long-term you would need to introduce a dynamic element. You would require a design whereby a player has to manually resolve crafting problems brought out by the materials used during the process. Maybe low quality weapons etc can be auto produced but higher quality requires a player to spend 2 hours manually crafting and resolving these dynamic problems.

Don't get me wrong, I like that idea, but you need to do this for almost all crafting, harvesting activities. That is a massive investment of developer time and the outcome of a fun process is not assured. And I have my doubts that even that can be engaging long-term before it gets boring. There really needs to be a competitive end state.

Or how would you make non-PvP more engaging?

What long-term goals are there for non-PvP? How do you "win" non-PvP currently?

Not being dick, I want to understand what you mean.
I'll amend my statement say this about crafting in particular but it applies to pretty much all non-pvp activities; if you aren't going to make it fun and engaging, at least make it minimally tedious.

It shouldn't take me 30+ clicks to make a simple suit of armor. I get that the process of making a suit of armor might not be able to be made "fun", but having it be so time consuming and tedious is not ideal.

When you say there needs to be a competitive end state, are you referring specifically to other players?

In general what a non-pvper should be competing against is the game itself. Whether it's PvE or figuring out a system like alchemy or refining, the game should offer a challenge or a form of real engagement. If PvE was fun and challenging, many more people would stay for the PvE. If gathering and testing for alchemy were less tedious and time consuming, more people would stay for it.

It's a recurring theme, accessible but challenging/engaging. And again if it's not necessarily fun, dont make it tedious. All games have these systems that are kind of boring but generally dont take that long. MO is the opposite, boring systems (mining etc) that take forever.

As for how to make non-pvp more engaging specifically, make PvE at least somewhat challenging. In this game you have to go out of your way to make PvE a challenge and even then you are doing it just for the challenge because it's FAR more efficient to just cheese the AI (using MA or DKs).

Long term goals? That's up to the individual. But speaking from my own experiences things like collecting every armor book, all the lores, building and owning TC, all the spells, figuring out new alchemy recipes, taming rare mounts. All of those things may at some point be able to play in to PvP, but they also don't ever have to. I did all those things and my concerns were not related to any PvP advantage.

And lastly winning, winning can just be the achievement of a new armor book or finishing your house. That sense of accomplishment is fun for some. If the systems were fun inherently, the experience would be much better and attract more players.
 
if you aren't going to make it fun and engaging, at least make it minimally tedious.
Jesus I wish I could up vote that multiple times. Exactly what I am getting at!

When you say there needs to be a competitive end state, are you referring specifically to other players?

In general what a non-pvper should be competing against is the game itself. Whether it's PvE or figuring out a system like alchemy or refining, the game should offer a challenge or a form of real engagement. If PvE was fun and challenging, many more people would stay for the PvE.
I am definitely in favour of a crafting process with dynamic challenges, but I am not sure you can make it interesting long-term. Eventually the player has encountered and mastered all the challenges. At that point nothing is left until the developer adds or changes content. PvP is by its nature endlessly engaging because you are fighting a human being. Beating another human is always rewarding by itself.

Regarding a competitive end state, I think it could be against other players or yourself. However, since this is an MMO "against other players" is preferable. Since the game is also about territory control, it would be even better if it is about that.

Just spit-balling here but being successful in PvP is not just about your individual skill. It is also about team work.

How do we introduce team work into non-PvP? It is probably not a direct comparative to PvP, but perhaps non-PvP should be more about managing processes rather than doing the manual button clicking? What do you do with your profits? Perhaps building AND maintaining settlements should take a lot more resources. But not play time. A players success at engaging economically can be visible in the splendour of your settlement but the actual repairing and harvesting takes place automatically. The hammering is not the fun part. Seeing the results of being good at something is.

How important is the immersion factor for you in non-PvP? I suspect it is more important than for PvP because non-PvP has a greater single-player element to it. The solution is probably to look what makes a single-player RPG enjoyable.

Long term goals? That's up to the individual. But speaking from my own experiences things like collecting every armor book, all the lores, building and owning TC, all the spells, figuring out new alchemy recipes, taming rare mounts. All of those things may at some point be able to play in to PvP, but they also don't ever have to. I did all those things and my concerns were not related to any PvP advantage.

And lastly winning, winning can just be the achievement of a new armor book or finishing your house. That sense of accomplishment is fun for some. If the systems were fun inherently, the experience would be much better and attract more players.
I agree all those things are rewarding, but they are limited in longevity. They are not replayable to any real extent like PvP is. Something is missing. What made Skyrim, for example, endlessly replayable for people?
 
Last edited:
Frankly, its just stupid at this point.

What they have told us so far amounts to:

"sometime in the near future we are going to launch MO2 where some of your stuff may or may not transfer, in the meantime we're going to go silent and work on noob island. Hope you like these screenshots"

Ive probably been in the fanboy camp the past few years but i couldnt think of a better way to kill this game then how SV has gone about this.
it only took u like 2-3 years to wake the fuck up roflmao, don't blame u bro, we all liked the game at some point.
 
Top