Mortal Online 2 Discussion
- Thread starter Valhalo
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Badman is right. It will be a miracle if MO2 is a good game. Really Henrik has to have had some major event happen that put him on the right path to making Mortal what it should have been. If it's just a simple "fuck it let's start over and try again" then there isnt a chance.
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Mortal online is a great game problem is most the player base is too busy trying murder everyone they see ... It's a sandbox mmo ... Not mount and blade... Not just a pvp game ... It's sandbox world where you can do what you want ... Sadly most of you just want to smash shit all day ... Killing newbie instead of helping them learn to go do stuff... O I get it tho the pvp is good fun ... But killing someone in steel is worth more then that robe wearing newb leaving tindrem... Anyways I'm done ranting .... I say more sand for the box the better ...
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That's what the majority of the player base (IT is what IT is) has decided the game is for. That's why they're here.*
* Why aren't the people who'd want to do sandbox-y things besides "smash shit all day" the majority, or more of an influential minority? (It's not as if they're not vocal, or as if they don't engage in prolonged textual intercourse with Star Vault, trying to bring about some satisfactory development. Don't blame them.)
That is the pertinent question, and the answer seems to be that the game has not been made entertaining for them, regardless of their PvP successes or other strivings, interests, and concerns (i.e., as most glaringly obvious in the past year, information security).
You can't argue the player base out of that kind of thing.
* Why aren't the people who'd want to do sandbox-y things besides "smash shit all day" the majority, or more of an influential minority? (It's not as if they're not vocal, or as if they don't engage in prolonged textual intercourse with Star Vault, trying to bring about some satisfactory development. Don't blame them.)
That is the pertinent question, and the answer seems to be that the game has not been made entertaining for them, regardless of their PvP successes or other strivings, interests, and concerns (i.e., as most glaringly obvious in the past year, information security).
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Multiple variables probably contribute to the lack of non-pvp oriented players.
Most predominant would likely be other games offer just as much non-pvp related activities without the prospect of being killed and losing the fruits of that labor. I'd imagine when given the option, most would choose not to deal with that aspect of a game.
Secondly might be the design of the current PvP system, where the main consequence of murdering someone is so easily circumvented by alts, f2p accounts, TC etc.
I'm not passing judgment on whether it's a good or bad system but, the logical conclusion of a system that promotes and fails to discourage violence is that it will drive away those who don't enjoy that aspect.
And it's probably worth considering; a PvPer doing what he/she enjoys imposes their playstyle on others, while someone who likes to pick flowers or fish isn't imposing their playstyle on anyone.
Most predominant would likely be other games offer just as much non-pvp related activities without the prospect of being killed and losing the fruits of that labor. I'd imagine when given the option, most would choose not to deal with that aspect of a game.
Secondly might be the design of the current PvP system, where the main consequence of murdering someone is so easily circumvented by alts, f2p accounts, TC etc.
I'm not passing judgment on whether it's a good or bad system but, the logical conclusion of a system that promotes and fails to discourage violence is that it will drive away those who don't enjoy that aspect.
And it's probably worth considering; a PvPer doing what he/she enjoys imposes their playstyle on others, while someone who likes to pick flowers or fish isn't imposing their playstyle on anyone.
Theres very few pve main players because in this style game in the end everything leads up to pvp.
You make steel to make pvp gear.
You breed mounts so you cna have a mount that wont get dunked by a player (pvp) or cna dunk players.
You make good food usually to gain weight, for pvp benefits.
Farm gold to buy deeds to usually make tc to be safe from pvp, or buy pvp stuff.
etc
Theres a few things that dont lead up to pvp, like spoh food. but most things end up relating to pvp in the end. If it didnt it wouldnt get used much because pvp is the end game.
Although if everyone just murdered nubs everywhere, I would have been able to fulfill my dream of being a mega carebear white knight protector rp legend. But every time I tried to stay blue I couldnt find anyone to attack that wasnt a mounted zerg so I would just give up and go red again. But I go red because most people you see are blue. If I could have easily found single / small groups of reds I would consider staying blue.
Having more pve players would be good for the game I just dont know how to make them want to play. Cuz they can just go play non pvp games that theri life will prob be a lot more fun and have a lot less griefing lol.
You make steel to make pvp gear.
You breed mounts so you cna have a mount that wont get dunked by a player (pvp) or cna dunk players.
You make good food usually to gain weight, for pvp benefits.
Farm gold to buy deeds to usually make tc to be safe from pvp, or buy pvp stuff.
etc
Theres a few things that dont lead up to pvp, like spoh food. but most things end up relating to pvp in the end. If it didnt it wouldnt get used much because pvp is the end game.
Although if everyone just murdered nubs everywhere, I would have been able to fulfill my dream of being a mega carebear white knight protector rp legend. But every time I tried to stay blue I couldnt find anyone to attack that wasnt a mounted zerg so I would just give up and go red again. But I go red because most people you see are blue. If I could have easily found single / small groups of reds I would consider staying blue.
Having more pve players would be good for the game I just dont know how to make them want to play. Cuz they can just go play non pvp games that theri life will prob be a lot more fun and have a lot less griefing lol.
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You know, I was not talking about NON-PvP *oriented* players, or even PvE main players, though some very competitive environments even in other PvP games have had those, too-- I don't mean that everything doesn't depend ultimately on or shouldn't support PvP, because it does (I fed a garrison of soldiers, not a platoon of gatherers, made steel for weapons as well as armour)--
I mean that the game has (also) not been made entertaining for those PvPers who want their PvP to lead to and support other facets of play as well.
... beside, not 'instead of'. The pertinent question can't be dodged that easily.
I mean that the game has (also) not been made entertaining for those PvPers who want their PvP to lead to and support other facets of play as well.
"the people who'd want to do sandbox-y things besides "smash shit all day""
... beside, not 'instead of'. The pertinent question can't be dodged that easily.
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I would disagree, its more that theres no interesting PVE to do. the 'next generation' AI in this game is extremely weak and simplistic, making all your pve encounters mostly the same and thus extremely boring. With no real PVE draw to the game, and no progression (from bone swords to tungsteel in a week), whats left are those who stay for the PVP.
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I was never a pvp in the MO and I enjoyed my own way.
The problem is that as the small player base, the limited market and the economic structure controlled by Starvault totally prospered and gained greater economic power, they prevented me from developing my ideas and making Myrland's economic life flow otherwise. In the end the traders were little more than slaves without real power over the money that we generated in the game, without the ability to organize a real financial circuit, with a cataract of infinite gold preventing us from accumulating more wealth and economic power, as a style of play .
I tried to dodge this control of the economy by Starvault, but in the end it was not possible.
They made sure that nobody could control the economy of the game by removing tools from the financiers, which made the traders end game, which is to evolve into a banker of immense economic power and a capitalist investor, lose their reason of being.
The problem is that as the small player base, the limited market and the economic structure controlled by Starvault totally prospered and gained greater economic power, they prevented me from developing my ideas and making Myrland's economic life flow otherwise. In the end the traders were little more than slaves without real power over the money that we generated in the game, without the ability to organize a real financial circuit, with a cataract of infinite gold preventing us from accumulating more wealth and economic power, as a style of play .
I tried to dodge this control of the economy by Starvault, but in the end it was not possible.
They made sure that nobody could control the economy of the game by removing tools from the financiers, which made the traders end game, which is to evolve into a banker of immense economic power and a capitalist investor, lose their reason of being.
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Could always just ask them.
I've seen many comments from non-pvp folks indicating myriad reasons to not log in over the years, it's rarely being murdered. Including non-pvpers in this thread.
I've seen many comments from non-pvp folks indicating myriad reasons to not log in over the years, it's rarely being murdered. Including non-pvpers in this thread.
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A 'great' game is designed to give people reasons not to do these things, or some kind of incentive to be constructive. Mortal has some good mechanics, but it is a bad game. It's badly designed in terms of risk/reward, there are glaring flaws all over it that completely invalidate other areas of the game and stifle player time investment and there are still systems they broke half a decade ago that they completely failed to fix out of pure stubbornness, horses would be a good example.
The trouble with Star Vault is that they all ultimately dance to Henrik's tune and the pure arrogance of doing that to appease his ego, rather than doing what is good for the game is what has cost Mortal hundreds of players over the years. This is why MO2 is ultimately doomed to fail, because it will be yet another vanity project. The majority of players pointed out that Mortal Royale would fail and that they should just focus on the main game and give people reasons to play, but yet again they ignored us and tried to make something solely for their own benefit.
Guess what? Nobody plays it and they never will because it's a lifeless husk of what made people play MO all these years in the first place and if Star Vault could just step back a second and see the bigger picture & focus on making a game for players rather than always just chasing what is good for them, they would see that.
The trouble with Star Vault is that they all ultimately dance to Henrik's tune and the pure arrogance of doing that to appease his ego, rather than doing what is good for the game is what has cost Mortal hundreds of players over the years. This is why MO2 is ultimately doomed to fail, because it will be yet another vanity project. The majority of players pointed out that Mortal Royale would fail and that they should just focus on the main game and give people reasons to play, but yet again they ignored us and tried to make something solely for their own benefit.
Guess what? Nobody plays it and they never will because it's a lifeless husk of what made people play MO all these years in the first place and if Star Vault could just step back a second and see the bigger picture & focus on making a game for players rather than always just chasing what is good for them, they would see that.
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I dont understand. How does Henriks ego get in the way of whats good for the game? Surely his ego would be appeased more by his games being successful then anything.
How DARE a game development company develop games for their own benefit?! YOU MONSTERS!
Yes, Star Vault! See the bigger picture! Here you have the opportunity to let some random guy on the internet tell you how to run your company and you just waste it! Please, Star Vault, come to your senses! Random people from the internet always knows best! Especialy when they have no credentials what so ever but are really sure that they know best!
How DARE a game development company develop games for their own benefit?! YOU MONSTERS!
Yes, Star Vault! See the bigger picture! Here you have the opportunity to let some random guy on the internet tell you how to run your company and you just waste it! Please, Star Vault, come to your senses! Random people from the internet always knows best! Especialy when they have no credentials what so ever but are really sure that they know best!
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I agree with what @Vangard said about Mortal Royale - it was doomed to fail IMO , I said it myself multiple times and I was very skeptical about it but tried it anyways . It was fun but had glaring issues just like MO , which is what made it fail. Also , like i warned them , they were entering an OVERSATURATED market with a battle Royale game ... why play MRwhen you could play with all of your friends in PUBG or blackout ?
I however DO NOT AGREE with how he says MO2 will fail - because in my opinion it won’t “fail” like Mortal Royale did , it May “fail” like mortal online “did” but I’m still playing MO and despite lots of stupid things (f2p not being able to pay tax — thanks starvault you owe me a jungle shack BTW) I still rather enjoy it because it’s a completely persistent MMO with lots of features other games don’t have (or do and don’t implement them in a significant way) .
If MO2 can be like what MO1 was originally, while also injecting some awesome stuff from what MO has now , then MO2 can be a great game . Things I think would be great a base for MO2 :
•unique builds , keeping lots of skills and maybe adding some like stealth / climbing
•multiple races that matter and have their own “specialties” without a caving to a Thursar meta while including a reworked thursar race
•spell system with ecumenical , elementalism , spiritism , but necromancy should be illegal around towns and there should be a very complex process for training tupilaks , shades and death steeds - the process of getting them should still be hard but that was literally the only thing holding people back from OP necro pets but now I would like them to be trained in a unique and challenging way before being useful - something to do with the ether that could go hand in hand with trading with spiritists or some shit , but then you would have to physically train them in different ways to attain their new attacks and higher stats .
•resource gathering for a complex crafting system like we have now with updated textures and colors
•dungeons for exploring to find “end game” content resources and experiences
•horse systems with a simple breeding that can only create one or two maxed favorable attributes , this system should create BALANCED horses with a couple attributes of your choosing heightened , not OP horses cuz “i worked so haaaerd for it” type deal
•territory control of towns by guilds who can set taxes and place structures to block off areas surrounding towns outskirts / landmarks on the map (not towns themselves though), but this time blockades made by people shouldn’t look so haggard , and there should be a stealth skill of some sort to be able to climb walls to get over guild placed walls as a solo ninja build (this way it can be blocked off but it’s also got a way besides sieging to get in)
•sieging should be in but wayy more interactive realistic and fun . Think more mount and blade siege instead of MO1 sieging , and then add in siege camps and starving out towns and you’ve got a hot to trot system
•no walls allowed anywhere except for around keeps , guards can’t use arrows or. magic except for Lictors (and even then the Code needs to be bettered so they don’t have super aimbot noclip) no guards allowed anywhere except developer made towns , guards can’t be purchased to defend but theoretically dominated pets could be stationed , but not anywhere nearly as effective as being under direct control from a master .
• butchery could only be done with a skinning knife for 25% total mats , OR at public butcher stations only found in the wild for 100-120% mats (buff could appear as a lore thing at specific butcher stations at specific times or activated by controlling guilds with a relic) - these cannot be created anywhere or used anywhere else via “portables” (butcher benches in towns) due to the tindy empire removing them and illegalizing portables so as to force Citizens to their “safe and protected” butcher stations (to prove the wilds were under their control- when they weren’t) where you used to pay a fee to butcher - but these times are long gone and the butcher stations are decrepit and unguarded - yet the main law still stays in place ... so if any guild were to monopolize the land territory controlling the butcher stations , they would find a lucrative way to FURTHER tax their citizens , unless of course the peasants are ok with their 25% mat collection rate .
•meteor / relic drops should still happen a lot - I fought over those a good bit back in the day
• Dynamic mines of special Ores should show up in a cool way like the meteors dropping , but instead it could be a mini earthquake that opens up a mine and villagers of every town would talk about the location of the mine for a few hours after the earth shook
•Taming / Dominating creatures should still be in IMO, but creatures shouldn’t be easily max leveled and they shouldn’t be able to be trained at a stable with some AI .... WE should train them dynamically per creature depending on what the creature is , how it attacks and it’s temperament . F.E: you dominate a Minotaur , this time around ANY level Minotaur would need a special relic / fist weapon to dominate. Also the training for a Minotaur will consist of actually sword fighting your Minotaur up higher levels like you would your own character, he will bottleneck at certain points which would mean you need to train him with another weapon or style . Another example : trainingg a dominated flying creature like fire bat would require you to attach a piece of fruit to arrows so you can help it practice it’s flight to avoid the arrows and also attack the fruit with its projectile .. taming a cougar would be a matter of keeping it chained and feeding it at specific times of day while also studying specific mammalian commands - letting it out only to hunt for food that you would be eating (alpha dog that coog) using the commands you learned in a book or through a tutor, which these commands would sometimes fail resulting in non-compliance , injury to the animal or yourself.
Each creature/animal will have its own likes /dislikes including food , noises , other creatures etc etc and if you don’t adhere to each animals likes / dislikes they may turn on you or run away forcing a messy retaming process or loss of creature . Also , the catch of training in this unique way per creature, is that during any of these weird little training sessions you could fatally wound your pet of get hurt/ killed yourself - making training a dominated/tamed creature a very personal endeavor , this also bottle necks the amount of people willing to “abuse” overpowered creatures by making it a process closer to training your own pvp skills up (which takes actual skill) rather than just churning out super weapons by knowing the ins and outs of top tier creatures and items needed to dominate , like the taming/domming system is now— instead , knowing the steps to get the creature you want will only be HALF the battle , then training and using them properly after getting used to their likes and dislikes will be the other half .
After learning the likes and dislikes it could be automaticaly logged in a sick ass leather bound journal with black ink that’s all artistic that could be bound to a key or button on the UI - this way a “beastmaster” could have a journal on how to reproduce the domination of a specific creature seeing as it will be much more complex with my system ... also making stuff like creature compendiums only make games shine brighter , think of the Withcer and how sick that journal was , now mix that with a brand new taming / domming system that’s more skill based and you have a great revamped skill set that’s far more interesting than the original .
I however DO NOT AGREE with how he says MO2 will fail - because in my opinion it won’t “fail” like Mortal Royale did , it May “fail” like mortal online “did” but I’m still playing MO and despite lots of stupid things (f2p not being able to pay tax — thanks starvault you owe me a jungle shack BTW) I still rather enjoy it because it’s a completely persistent MMO with lots of features other games don’t have (or do and don’t implement them in a significant way) .
If MO2 can be like what MO1 was originally, while also injecting some awesome stuff from what MO has now , then MO2 can be a great game . Things I think would be great a base for MO2 :
•unique builds , keeping lots of skills and maybe adding some like stealth / climbing
•multiple races that matter and have their own “specialties” without a caving to a Thursar meta while including a reworked thursar race
•spell system with ecumenical , elementalism , spiritism , but necromancy should be illegal around towns and there should be a very complex process for training tupilaks , shades and death steeds - the process of getting them should still be hard but that was literally the only thing holding people back from OP necro pets but now I would like them to be trained in a unique and challenging way before being useful - something to do with the ether that could go hand in hand with trading with spiritists or some shit , but then you would have to physically train them in different ways to attain their new attacks and higher stats .
•resource gathering for a complex crafting system like we have now with updated textures and colors
•dungeons for exploring to find “end game” content resources and experiences
•horse systems with a simple breeding that can only create one or two maxed favorable attributes , this system should create BALANCED horses with a couple attributes of your choosing heightened , not OP horses cuz “i worked so haaaerd for it” type deal
•territory control of towns by guilds who can set taxes and place structures to block off areas surrounding towns outskirts / landmarks on the map (not towns themselves though), but this time blockades made by people shouldn’t look so haggard , and there should be a stealth skill of some sort to be able to climb walls to get over guild placed walls as a solo ninja build (this way it can be blocked off but it’s also got a way besides sieging to get in)
•sieging should be in but wayy more interactive realistic and fun . Think more mount and blade siege instead of MO1 sieging , and then add in siege camps and starving out towns and you’ve got a hot to trot system
•no walls allowed anywhere except for around keeps , guards can’t use arrows or. magic except for Lictors (and even then the Code needs to be bettered so they don’t have super aimbot noclip) no guards allowed anywhere except developer made towns , guards can’t be purchased to defend but theoretically dominated pets could be stationed , but not anywhere nearly as effective as being under direct control from a master .
• butchery could only be done with a skinning knife for 25% total mats , OR at public butcher stations only found in the wild for 100-120% mats (buff could appear as a lore thing at specific butcher stations at specific times or activated by controlling guilds with a relic) - these cannot be created anywhere or used anywhere else via “portables” (butcher benches in towns) due to the tindy empire removing them and illegalizing portables so as to force Citizens to their “safe and protected” butcher stations (to prove the wilds were under their control- when they weren’t) where you used to pay a fee to butcher - but these times are long gone and the butcher stations are decrepit and unguarded - yet the main law still stays in place ... so if any guild were to monopolize the land territory controlling the butcher stations , they would find a lucrative way to FURTHER tax their citizens , unless of course the peasants are ok with their 25% mat collection rate .
•meteor / relic drops should still happen a lot - I fought over those a good bit back in the day
• Dynamic mines of special Ores should show up in a cool way like the meteors dropping , but instead it could be a mini earthquake that opens up a mine and villagers of every town would talk about the location of the mine for a few hours after the earth shook
•Taming / Dominating creatures should still be in IMO, but creatures shouldn’t be easily max leveled and they shouldn’t be able to be trained at a stable with some AI .... WE should train them dynamically per creature depending on what the creature is , how it attacks and it’s temperament . F.E: you dominate a Minotaur , this time around ANY level Minotaur would need a special relic / fist weapon to dominate. Also the training for a Minotaur will consist of actually sword fighting your Minotaur up higher levels like you would your own character, he will bottleneck at certain points which would mean you need to train him with another weapon or style . Another example : trainingg a dominated flying creature like fire bat would require you to attach a piece of fruit to arrows so you can help it practice it’s flight to avoid the arrows and also attack the fruit with its projectile .. taming a cougar would be a matter of keeping it chained and feeding it at specific times of day while also studying specific mammalian commands - letting it out only to hunt for food that you would be eating (alpha dog that coog) using the commands you learned in a book or through a tutor, which these commands would sometimes fail resulting in non-compliance , injury to the animal or yourself.
Each creature/animal will have its own likes /dislikes including food , noises , other creatures etc etc and if you don’t adhere to each animals likes / dislikes they may turn on you or run away forcing a messy retaming process or loss of creature . Also , the catch of training in this unique way per creature, is that during any of these weird little training sessions you could fatally wound your pet of get hurt/ killed yourself - making training a dominated/tamed creature a very personal endeavor , this also bottle necks the amount of people willing to “abuse” overpowered creatures by making it a process closer to training your own pvp skills up (which takes actual skill) rather than just churning out super weapons by knowing the ins and outs of top tier creatures and items needed to dominate , like the taming/domming system is now— instead , knowing the steps to get the creature you want will only be HALF the battle , then training and using them properly after getting used to their likes and dislikes will be the other half .
After learning the likes and dislikes it could be automaticaly logged in a sick ass leather bound journal with black ink that’s all artistic that could be bound to a key or button on the UI - this way a “beastmaster” could have a journal on how to reproduce the domination of a specific creature seeing as it will be much more complex with my system ... also making stuff like creature compendiums only make games shine brighter , think of the Withcer and how sick that journal was , now mix that with a brand new taming / domming system that’s more skill based and you have a great revamped skill set that’s far more interesting than the original .
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Questions overwhelm us...
Are any of us here, in this forum, at random? Perhaps here by mistake? I don't think so.
I wonder, too, what credentials you would find sufficient; who do you think knows best, who isn't Star Vault? Keeping in mind that they do ask for feedback and can't be said, on their own, to be unbiased. It's been posited that by insisting on certain features (like flagging) and against others (I could get in trouble for naming the one that comes to mind first) that the game has been kept small (which some say is a good thing, or a neutral thing) or held back from greater success even in its niche (certainly, we can imagine greater success at avoiding some perils & pitfalls). It's been hard to tell unwillingness to change from inability, and impossible to gauge the results as wholly good -or- wholly bad.
As CEO, the only way that Henrik Nyström, himself, doesn't get in the way of what's good for the game is if he's *never* been wrong-- about anything. That's how that buck-stopping-THERE shit works.
Are any of us here, in this forum, at random? Perhaps here by mistake? I don't think so.
I wonder, too, what credentials you would find sufficient; who do you think knows best, who isn't Star Vault? Keeping in mind that they do ask for feedback and can't be said, on their own, to be unbiased. It's been posited that by insisting on certain features (like flagging) and against others (I could get in trouble for naming the one that comes to mind first) that the game has been kept small (which some say is a good thing, or a neutral thing) or held back from greater success even in its niche (certainly, we can imagine greater success at avoiding some perils & pitfalls). It's been hard to tell unwillingness to change from inability, and impossible to gauge the results as wholly good -or- wholly bad.
As CEO, the only way that Henrik Nyström, himself, doesn't get in the way of what's good for the game is if he's *never* been wrong-- about anything. That's how that buck-stopping-THERE shit works.
Maybe someone was brought here by clicking "Random article" on wikipedia. I understand that you could say that its pseudo-random, but lets not spit pubic hairs. (Is that how the saying goes? Second language and all...)
I think I understand. Henrik has a vision what his game should be and dont want to stay too far from it.
I think that perdicting the outcome of certain changes to the game is extremly difficult. A change that increases the playerbase isnt always one that makes the game more enjoyable for all players. So whenever someone claims to know exactly how to "fix" something and complains that SV doesnt listen to his obviously genious ideas, the fact that he is so confident in his untested ideas lessens my trust in his competence.
The original statement was that Henriks ego was prioritized over improving the game. This is not a question of competense.
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It's the first time I've heard this particular saying, though it reminds me of "let's not split hairs", as an idiom for warning against going into too much detail.
- As far as pubic hairs go, any foreign object detected in a meal should be quietly removed from one's mouth under cover of a napkin, without discussion at the table.
So, anyone knows when is the target release date for MO 2? @Henrik Nystrom @Sebastian Persson ?
I believe this could be a turning point for the Sandbox MMO market, since now there is a technology which would make MO experience much better on large scale.
I believe this could be a turning point for the Sandbox MMO market, since now there is a technology which would make MO experience much better on large scale.