Mortal Online 2 Discussion

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
Howdy!
I don't dare talk to much about our plans but I think I can straighten some things out here.

We have NO plans on shutting down MO once we release MO2. We will just keep servers running at that point the two games will be vastly different since early MO2 will only contain a basic set of features.
We plan to then re-add and build upon the game adding features one by one from MO to MO2. It will take a while..a while.. to implement the now massive amount of features that MO2 has.

This means that for a long time MO will have a LOT more features while MO2 sticks to the core while we build it up again.
Re-adding features will be quicker than the first time we did this ofc, the new engine is better, a lot of server stuff can be re-used and also I'm better at doing this and we have more programmers but it will take time.
VS

Yeah, Seb! Get remaking the entire game!
This will never, never happen people.

Hmm, who to believe...

And I can not talk about the schedule for this yet.
In a couple of weeks we can talk about it again things will be clearer then.
Well, it's been seven weeks & a day, right?
 

realnaste

Honored Member
This thread brings a tear to my eye. I just popped to see what's up with this game, and not only was I slightly surprised people still play, but there are plans for a part 2? Wow.
 
Not posted on this forum in years, can't even find my old account details, oh well. My first thoughts are...

MO2 needs to be a fresh start if the purpose is to generate new interest and new players. Unfortunately, without a change in your core design principles you won't retain those new players. Why?

Summary: Cannibalism
The population of open-PvP games with a farm-grind requirement inevitably cannibalizes itself. Due to a confluence of playstyle rewards/penalties and social dynamics the population eventually splits into those that PvP-the-most and everyone else. The former eats until everyone else quits.

I'll split this into more specific points.

Problem 1: Farming as penalty
The farm-grind is the penalty for losing PvP. Only the best PvPers can minimize that loss, i.e. <50%. Those players least skilled in PvP are stuck doing the least fun part of the game. Eventually they give up and quit.

Problem 2: Playstyle imposition
People would not mind losing PvP and not being the best if they are having fun and have some control when it happens. Players that PvP-only can return everyday, same time. They can leave characters logged out in an area, wait for right time to log in, attack, log out again. It is an unending cycle for those that don't want a PvP-only play session and they have no way to stop it.

Problem 3: Social segregation
PvPers tend to group together, separate from those less interested or skilled in PvP. Groups that include lesser skilled players are always at a disadvantage, unless the game design favours numbers > skill. Which I assume no one wants?

Problem 4: Immersion
Competitive sandbox games have a significant drawback with regards to storytelling in relation to themeparks or single-player RPGs. You can write the most intricate lore background you want but it means little because it is static and is completely overshadowed by player PvP-politics that have zero relation to the lore.

So what to do? Well, in my decidedly armchair opinion the game design should strive for...

Goal 1: PvPers fighting other PvPers. Non-PvP players should only be involved during major events such as sieges or if they choose to partake. The vast majority of territory should be able to be pacified by a player force, i.e. PvP disabled.

Goal 2: Ability to manage the wider player base by core guilds/clans that inevitably do the most PvP/planning etc. There needs to be a reason for PvP-only groups to include the non-PvPers. In fact, attracting non-PvPers to your territory should be a critical requirement for success.

Goal 3: Developer created in-game social structure (i.e. professional level of quality) that replaces the standard guild/clan mechanic.

Goal 4: Non-PvP play focused on resource management, crafting as opposed to repetitive tasks.

Goal 5: Automated resource generation based on territory control. You already have this maybe?

How you go about the above goals can obviously be quite varied.
- Personally I believe character death is essential to give context to character actions.
- Tie alignment system to lifespan. Kill PvP character from other factions, great. Kill civilians, even at war, penalties begin to stack. This is naturally a simplistic suggestion to make it work you have to drive into detail, exceptions etc.
- Single character limit is pointless because people will multibox anyway. Build multiple characters into the game design and billing system. It will allow players to move around the map and keep busy if a particular area is quiet without breaking the game with vast travel.
- Player character need to double as NPCs. Bring single-player life to the game during low activity periods. Maybe persistent characters isn't quite technically feasible yet but somehow keep interactivity with other player characters possible even when players are offline.

No, COE is not doing it right either, although they are the closest.

I've not played MO in years so feel free to tell me how all this is in the game already.
 
Thread starter #605

Valhalo

Trial Member
PvPers fighting other PvPers. Non-PvP players should only be involved during major events such as sieges or if they choose to partake. The vast majority of territory should be able to be pacified by a player force, i.e. PvP disabled.
This completely takes away what makes the game what it is, and a step in the wrong direction.
 
Mortal Online 2 ya say? Looks like old Favonius Cornelius will be back after all. See you all in 2020 for the next update.
 
Problem 1: Farming as penalty
The farm-grind is the penalty for losing PvP. Only the best PvPers can minimize that loss, i.e. <50%. Those players least skilled in PvP are stuck doing the least fun part of the game. Eventually they give up and quit.
I agree with this, if your game is going to have both PvE and PvP elements they should both be an enjoyable part of the game and PvE elements should fuel PvP and vice versa.
The moment you begin to differentiate PvP players from PvE players means failure. It should work as one single system.
Hell UO was mostly "PvE content" but my favorite encounters of all time will always be running into a group of reds while running a dungeon with a few friends.
That type of emergent/dynamic PvP while engaging in FUN PvE activity is what made UO so special.

Problem 2: Playstyle imposition
People would not mind losing PvP and not being the best if they are having fun and have some control when it happens. Players that PvP-only can return everyday, same time. They can leave characters logged out in an area, wait for right time to log in, attack, log out again. It is an unending cycle for those that don't want a PvP-only play session and they have no way to stop it.
This isn't so much a problem with playstyle imposition as it is abusing alt characters. It's an issue that's not so easy to fix
Going forward with MO2 I do hope they do something along the lines of 1 character per account with being able to switch skill sets/ bodies as though they were alt characters
I made a small little suggestion in the MO2 discussion, It's just an example of one solution to the alt character problem but realistically you'll never fully be rid of it. Even if you have 1 character + skill/race slots per account people will still buy multiple accounts
Link to that post

Problem 3: Social segregation
PvPers tend to group together, separate from those less interested or skilled in PvP. Groups that include lesser skilled players are always at a disadvantage, unless the game design favours numbers > skill. Which I assume no one wants?
I'm going to disagree hard on that.
Believe it or not the most dedicated PvE players are going to be your dedicated PvP players.
They will farm and find the most efficient methods to everythng in the PvE world to get an edge in PvP life. Do you think RPK all have full Ogh/Cronite gear + many guard zone + DK + etc from purely PvP?

Another thing is while skill plays a huge factor, it will never matter what game or what mechanics the game introduces Zerging will always be the most powerful tactic.
If the little guys are getting beat down they shouldn't be afraid to band together either under a new loose mega guild or a coalition of many guilds.
In NA LiFMMO there were 3ish massive chinese guilds that were running over everyone with sheer numbers, however in order to stop it nerely every NA guild formed a gigantic coalition of 30+ guilds to stop it. It was neato however the issue with that kind of politics in a sandbox game is that it almost always turns into just 2 factions.

Problem 4: Immersion
Competitive sandbox games have a significant drawback with regards to storytelling in relation to themeparks or single-player RPGs. You can write the most intricate lore background you want but it means little because it is static and is completely overshadowed by player PvP-politics that have zero relation to the lore.

So what to do? Well, in my decidedly armchair opinion the game design should strive for...

Goal 1: PvPers fighting other PvPers. Non-PvP players should only be involved during major events such as sieges or if they choose to partake. The vast majority of territory should be able to be pacified by a player force, i.e. PvP disabled.
Are you joking? Protecting players with in these types of mechanics is a mistake in this type of game.
Full Loot, PvP anywhere is part of the charm even when I'm doing PvE the dynamic of encounters that can occur is what makes the game great.
Guardzones are already a bit too limiting, though it has been getting better with the line of sight changes

Goal 2: Ability to manage the wider player base by core guilds/clans that inevitably do the most PvP/planning etc. There needs to be a reason for PvP-only groups to include the non-PvPers. In fact, attracting non-PvPers to your territory should be a critical requirement for success.

Goal 3: Developer created in-game social structure (i.e. professional level of quality) that replaces the standard guild/clan mechanic.

Goal 4: Non-PvP play focused on resource management, crafting as opposed to repetitive tasks.

Goal 5: Automated resource generation based on territory control. You already have this maybe?

How you go about the above goals can obviously be quite varied.
- Personally I believe character death is essential to give context to character actions.
- Tie alignment system to lifespan. Kill PvP character from other factions, great. Kill civilians, even at war, penalties begin to stack. This is naturally a simplistic suggestion to make it work you have to drive into detail, exceptions etc.
- Single character limit is pointless because people will multibox anyway. Build multiple characters into the game design and billing system. It will allow players to move around the map and keep busy if a particular area is quiet without breaking the game with vast travel.
Guild management could use some work as well as guild mechanics as losing a guild stone doesn't really mean much, and we all know TC needs to be tweaked.
Forced wardecs need to come back (why is war consensual?) as well as structure fixes and the ability to jump into peoples walls 24/7.
I do think copying the JH concept from LiFMMO would be a good idea but ONLY for building destruction. Otherwise people will just wait for others to go to sleep and then siege without real opposition. With primetime windows you're more likely to have a real fight on a siege.
I wouldn't mind a minor type of guild for small bands of players/friends to form without the need for a guildstone

Alignment system could use some work as well.

and once again I'll agree with making the PvE side of the game more fun/interesting. As I always say if you're going to include those 2 elements in the game both should fuel each other as though they were a single system and both should be enjoyable to play.

P.S. Sorry about the wall of text everyone.
 
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So if you're a loser like me with three full accounts of skilled guys, does that mean I get to transfer 3 or only one?
 

Fizzdar

Junior Member
I just hope they just make directional blocking in UE4 and port over MO1 assets
 
CLEAN WIPE

Most important thing will be to wipe it.. people shouldn't have riches transferred, account bind stuff yes but not what is grinded. Why? Read below.

POPULATION

When MO2 releases it will bring alot of new players, aswell as veterans BUT vets from early mo/mo overall shouldn't come in fully kitted out and start clapping everyone, it will be too easy for us and too hard for new people which will eventually lead to that only the core population of MO plays MO2.

GRINDING

Another aspect is the grinding, yes, there should be grinding! But playing mortal online was more than grinding, it was almost like a second job to keep up with everything which is too much and scares people away.

THE SKILL SYSTEM

If it limits to only one character their should be different "tabs"

1 Combat tab
2 Crafting tab
3 Character tab
Also where my thoughts went is; if I can only have one char, what if I'm a fighter and I want to be a mage? This needs to be carefully planned.

BETTER NPCs and AI

Mortal online's PvE was not great at all, this needs to be changed. Running around the world of MO2 should have dangers, not just PvP dangers. Also a working AI.

COMBAT

Keep the core mortal online combat but FIX IT, good movement, balanced, different VIABLE game play types. Meaning get rid of the "you can only be viable if you use this"

Also another thing.. since I even take my time writing and getting my hopes up.

The building/guild base building.

Yes there should be walls, houses, etc.
But compensate this with harder grinding and working/fun siege mechanics.

This is my thoughts, you don't have to like them. I also reserve for spelling issues, written from my phone.

EDIT; I forgot to add that I am really hyped for mo2 and the time of mo was awesome
 

Dalacor

Senior Member
CLEAN WIPE

Most important thing will be to wipe it.. people shouldn't have riches transferred, account bind stuff yes but not what is grinded. Why? Read below.

POPULATION

When MO2 releases it will bring alot of new players, aswell as veterans BUT vets from early mo/mo overall shouldn't come in fully kitted out and start clapping everyone, it will be too easy for us and too hard for new people which will eventually lead to that only the core population of MO plays MO2.

GRINDING

Another aspect is the grinding, yes, there should be grinding! But playing mortal online was more than grinding, it was almost like a second job to keep up with everything which is too much and scares people away.

THE SKILL SYSTEM

If it limits to only one character their should be different "tabs"

1 Combat tab
2 Crafting tab
3 Character tab
Also where my thoughts went is; if I can only have one char, what if I'm a fighter and I want to be a mage? This needs to be carefully planned.

BETTER NPCs and AI

Mortal online's PvE was not great at all, this needs to be changed. Running around the world of MO2 should have dangers, not just PvP dangers. Also a working AI.

COMBAT

Keep the core mortal online combat but FIX IT, good movement, balanced, different VIABLE game play types. Meaning get rid of the "you can only be viable if you use this"

Also another thing.. since I even take my time writing and getting my hopes up.

The building/guild base building.

Yes there should be walls, houses, etc.
But compensate this with harder grinding and working/fun siege mechanics.

This is my thoughts, you don't have to like them. I also reserve for spelling issues, written from my phone.

EDIT; I forgot to add that I am really hyped for mo2 and the time of mo was awesome
Agree with all of this but even more important, the game needs to inspire people to log in, to control lands, to defeat ones enemies and to drive politics. In MO, once you have made your riches, there is literally no point to log in hence most players used to wait in TS/Discord till a fight(almost never) and then log in fight then log out. Creates a dead world. Kills population.
 
I completely agree with all of this, I wouldn't mind giving vets from MO1 cosmetics and titles and whatnot ie: non gameplay things.
Vets will be dunking new players with bone tissue swords regardless however.

One thing I will say however is that it's a lot of fun being able to play different builds, I do think every build should have to specialize but it's a lot of fun being able to switch it up sometimes.
I made a post regarding alt characters/being able to switch to different builds while still trying to stick to the "1 account/character idea" some time ago.

Regarding alternate characters. First splitting Crafting and Combat skills between 2 different pools is a good thing, being able to pvp on my crafter in LiF instead of having to rely many many alts was a good thing however being able to play different builds especially for combat is a lot of fun.

I still think combat and crafting professions should have to specialize.
but consider something like this
Monetization - Can purchase character slots 4 body slots and 4 mind/soul slots (2 default)
Basically your mind slots have all your skills for that character and body slots are all your racial options. (like having alt char slots but skills/race is split)

In game
- A spiritism ritual that creates an item allowing a character to change his skills to a set in his soul/mind slot.
- A necromancy ritual that creates an item allowing a character to change his body to one from his available slots

Doing so applies a very crippling ~30 minute debuff either to effective skill or stam/health depending on what was switched.
Now you have a lore friendly way for people to switch characters as well as (kind of) keeping people to "1 character" per account.
Not to mention some economy drivers
This is just an example of one solution, just putting ideas out there.

Agree with all of this but even more important, the game needs to inspire people to log in, to control lands, to defeat ones enemies and to drive politics. In MO, once you have made your riches, there is literally no point to log in hence most players used to wait in TS/Discord till a fight(almost never) and then log in fight then log out. Creates a dead world. Kills population.
Yep, Part of the problem is how TC works right now, it definitely needs tweaks.
Many problems like Guardzone spam, More methods to deal with walls, waiting for people to go to sleep to siege.

Despite LiFMMO being a trashfire of a game it does have some good concepts to take.

Judgement Hour in the context of building destruction would be a good idea, it stops the game from becoming a "whoever goes to sleep first loses contest" and even disabling guards during the guilds vulnerable hours hence forcing PvP sieges to be fought between players.
Larger guilds tend to have more vulnerable hours, Currently my group is a rank 1 guild and we have about 3 hours of JH every day and 6+ hours on weekend days
Wall placement needs some looking at, even restricting walls to keeps could be a potential bandaid but I'm not sure I completely agree with it.
I remember part of the intention of TC was to create player run towns that other players could move to, I'm not sure if this will ever be feasible due to player mindset but it *might* be worth looking at again. (I doubt it though)

being able to hop walls with ladders/equipment 24/7 would also be a fun time.
but iunno these are just some of my opinions, regardless of what I think we can all agree that TC needs changes
 
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I completely agree with all of this, I wouldn't mind giving vets from MO1 cosmetics and titles and whatnot ie: non gameplay things.
Vets will be dunking new players with bone tissue swords regardless however.

One thing I will say however is that it's a lot of fun being able to play different builds, I do think every build should have to specialize but it's a lot of fun being able to switch it up sometimes.
I made a post regarding alt characters/being able to switch to different builds while still trying to stick to the "1 account/character idea" some time ago.



This is just an example of one solution, just putting ideas out there.


Yep, Part of the problem is how TC works right now, it definitely needs tweaks.
Many problems like Guardzone spam, More methods to deal with walls, waiting for people to go to sleep to siege.

Despite LiFMMO being a trashfire of a game it does have some good concepts to take.

Judgement Hour in the context of building destruction would be a good idea, it stops the game from becoming a "whoever goes to sleep first loses contest" and even disabling guards during the guilds vulnerable hours hence forcing PvP sieges to be fought between players.
Larger guilds tend to have more vulnerable hours, Currently my group is a rank 1 guild and we have about 3 hours of JH every day and 6+ hours on weekend days
Wall placement needs some looking at, even restricting walls to keeps could be a potential bandaid but I'm not sure I completely agree with it.
I remember part of the intention of TC was to create player run towns that other players could move to, I'm not sure if this will ever be feasible due to player mindset but it *might* be worth looking at again. (I doubt it though)

being able to hop walls with ladders/equipment 24/7 would also be a fun time.
but iunno these are just some of my opinions, regardless of what I think we can all agree that TC needs changes
Ive played LiF alot i understand the point with JH but it wouldn't be the same thing on MO2
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
Agree with all of this but even more important, the game needs to inspire people to log in, to control lands, to defeat ones enemies and to drive politics. In MO, once you have made your riches, there is literally no point to log in hence most players used to wait in TS/Discord till a fight(almost never) and then log in fight then log out. Creates a dead world. Kills population.
They need to make the rest of the game fun and interesting and not just focus on reasons to PvP.

I agree conflict is a great driver of activity but for people who dont play specifically to pvp, there should be things to do that they can repeatedly enjoy; which speaks to your point about reasons to log in. My reason for logging in shouldnt be predicated on other people HAVING to be involved.

The sole reason to log in should be: to have fun.

Whether its pve, crafting, exploring, pvp; it needs to be fun in and of itself.
 
Any rumor about the sub price? It will monthly sub like now ?
 
If they release MO2 too late, everything will be outdated and far behind everything else anyways.
So, lets see if they launch within a reasonable time or not...
 

Keurk

Senior Member
Not posted on this forum in years, can't even find my old account details, oh well. My first thoughts are...

MO2 needs to be a fresh start if the purpose is to generate new interest and new players. Unfortunately, without a change in your core design principles you won't retain those new players. Why?

Summary: Cannibalism
The population of open-PvP games with a farm-grind requirement inevitably cannibalizes itself. Due to a confluence of playstyle rewards/penalties and social dynamics the population eventually splits into those that PvP-the-most and everyone else. The former eats until everyone else quits.

I'll split this into more specific points.

Problem 1: Farming as penalty
The farm-grind is the penalty for losing PvP. Only the best PvPers can minimize that loss, i.e. <50%. Those players least skilled in PvP are stuck doing the least fun part of the game. Eventually they give up and quit.

Problem 2: Playstyle imposition
People would not mind losing PvP and not being the best if they are having fun and have some control when it happens. Players that PvP-only can return everyday, same time. They can leave characters logged out in an area, wait for right time to log in, attack, log out again. It is an unending cycle for those that don't want a PvP-only play session and they have no way to stop it.

Problem 3: Social segregation
PvPers tend to group together, separate from those less interested or skilled in PvP. Groups that include lesser skilled players are always at a disadvantage, unless the game design favours numbers > skill. Which I assume no one wants?

Problem 4: Immersion
Competitive sandbox games have a significant drawback with regards to storytelling in relation to themeparks or single-player RPGs. You can write the most intricate lore background you want but it means little because it is static and is completely overshadowed by player PvP-politics that have zero relation to the lore.

So what to do? Well, in my decidedly armchair opinion the game design should strive for...

Goal 1: PvPers fighting other PvPers. Non-PvP players should only be involved during major events such as sieges or if they choose to partake. The vast majority of territory should be able to be pacified by a player force, i.e. PvP disabled.

Goal 2: Ability to manage the wider player base by core guilds/clans that inevitably do the most PvP/planning etc. There needs to be a reason for PvP-only groups to include the non-PvPers. In fact, attracting non-PvPers to your territory should be a critical requirement for success.

Goal 3: Developer created in-game social structure (i.e. professional level of quality) that replaces the standard guild/clan mechanic.

Goal 4: Non-PvP play focused on resource management, crafting as opposed to repetitive tasks.

Goal 5: Automated resource generation based on territory control. You already have this maybe?

How you go about the above goals can obviously be quite varied.
- Personally I believe character death is essential to give context to character actions.
- Tie alignment system to lifespan. Kill PvP character from other factions, great. Kill civilians, even at war, penalties begin to stack. This is naturally a simplistic suggestion to make it work you have to drive into detail, exceptions etc.
- Single character limit is pointless because people will multibox anyway. Build multiple characters into the game design and billing system. It will allow players to move around the map and keep busy if a particular area is quiet without breaking the game with vast travel.
- Player character need to double as NPCs. Bring single-player life to the game during low activity periods. Maybe persistent characters isn't quite technically feasible yet but somehow keep interactivity with other player characters possible even when players are offline.

No, COE is not doing it right either, although they are the closest.

I've not played MO in years so feel free to tell me how all this is in the game already.
go back in your hole and never go out again before you properly understand how miserably carebears some of thoses ideas are for the game
 
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