New MO2 Screenshot ? FixMapHousing

Yeonan

Trial Member
My fear is that MO2 will lose its original MO identity to the art style and law. Simply adding so much from the asset store with varying quality isnt going to look consistant and at the same time leaves MO2 open to criticism from those looking from the outside. If MO2 cant even get new assets then what is MO2? Currently you could create a scene like the one in the picture in about 20 minutes using UE4 with assets off the store. The whole thing with game design now is the assets and if you aren't creating new assets then i seriously question the ability of this development team.

Now i am worried about the future of MO2 and am seriously thinking "donating" to acquire MO2 and alpha access might have been a mistake.
What upside is there to creating all of their own assets with a small team?

Their library will be a fraction of the size and cost a lot more than what they can get out of the Quixel library, so we'll end up with less variety due to re-use of assets.

Look at MO1 where player houses have what, 5 skins? Using Quixel they have access to 100's.
 
My fear is that MO2 will lose its original MO identity to the art style and law. Simply adding so much from the asset store with varying quality isnt going to look consistant and at the same time leaves MO2 open to criticism from those looking from the outside. If MO2 cant even get new assets then what is MO2? Currently you could create a scene like the one in the picture in about 20 minutes using UE4 with assets off the store. The whole thing with game design now is the assets and if you aren't creating new assets then i seriously question the ability of this development team.

Now i am worried about the future of MO2 and am seriously thinking "donating" to acquire MO2 and alpha access might have been a mistake.
If it looks good, maybe is for the best. Have u seen how horrible Tindrem is now with custom assets? Looks like a giant bathroom

Not sure how it affects performance but at least it means MO2 is coming sooner than 2030
 

deathshroud

Exalted Member
What upside is there to creating all of their own assets with a small team?

Their library will be a fraction of the size and cost a lot more than what they can get out of the Quixel library, so we'll end up with less variety due to re-use of assets.

Look at MO1 where player houses have what, 5 skins? Using Quixel they have access to 100's.
Henrik said they have 20+ developers
 

Wabbajack

Junior Member
Using the unreal store to speed up the process is a smart way of decreasing development time. Major Studios like DICE use Quixel and with the time (time = money) saved they can actually focus more on gameplay aspects.

With a good level designer, carefully chosen assets from the store, no one will ever notice that these things were made by different artists. It is crucial to have an eye for quality when choosing these assets.
 

Sebastian Persson

Developer
Staff member
Henrik said they have 20+ developers
Yes so a small team.

Straight up building a world this large with custom meshes for everything would take and cost a insane unreasonable amount of time and money for such a tiny team.

There also seems to be a massive misunderstanding when it comes to buying assets. These assets when bought are far from complete, they all need to have their mesh modified,textures changed and we are building custom collision for all of them. It's a lot of work to get them ready for a MMO environment.

Making a game while taking advantage of the marketplace is not just deciding what to buy then drag and dropping it into the world, it's far more work than that.
 
Yes so a small team.

Straight up building a world this large with custom meshes for everything would take and cost a insane unreasonable amount of time and money for such a tiny team.

There also seems to be a massive misunderstanding when it comes to buying assets. These assets when bought are far from complete, they all need to have their mesh modified,textures changed and we are building custom collision for all of them. It's a lot of work to get them ready for a MMO environment.

Making a game while taking advantage of the marketplace is not just deciding what to buy then drag and dropping it into the world, it's far more work than that.
Get it done already =pp love you fucks
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
There also seems to be a massive misunderstanding when it comes to buying assets...
The 'winner' rating in this case very precisely means I think the argument is over.

Also, what you said gives me hope that, optionally, not every pre-made house

that comes with a wrecked car wagon on cinderblocks dodgy wheels (that never does get and never will get fixed) parked in the dooryard has to remain looking that way if you bring it into the game. Don't some of us have to look at enough of that already? Of course, it might make more sense once (or IF) wagons get introduced in MO2.
 
You have to be really careful with using market place assets. A lot of people have been burnt by "asset flip" games, where games are 90% market place assets and purchased mechanics/systems. So many new games have fallen due to reviewers, large youtubers and communities being hyped about games, then finding out the game is all purchased content.

It's a fine line you have to tread carefully, and have to be very open about - especially when it comes to advertising your game in public spaces. You don't want to end up like all those other games.
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
My fear is that MO2 will lose its original MO identity to the art style and law. Simply adding so much from the asset store with varying quality isnt going to look consistant and at the same time leaves MO2 open to criticism from those looking from the outside. If MO2 cant even get new assets then what is MO2? Currently you could create a scene like the one in the picture in about 20 minutes using UE4 with assets off the store. The whole thing with game design now is the assets and if you aren't creating new assets then i seriously question the ability of this development team.

Now i am worried about the future of MO2 and am seriously thinking "donating" to acquire MO2 and alpha access might have been a mistake.
I agree. I'm now worried that MO2 will be pretty and all...but will not feel like the Mortal Online we all know. And honestly that will slowly kill it for me. MO has a VERY unique feel to its world. Seeing a bunch of premade templates bought off the marketplace may be a little lame...but I suppose as long as they add their own spice to it then it will be fine.

I really just hope it feels like the same mysterious and eerie world that SV created, and not all bloom and butterflies like most every other game. But hey...this is just me saying what I hope doesn't happen. Surely SV can get us some actual screenshots from in-game at some point in the near future!
 

Speznat

Senior Member
You have to be really careful with using market place assets. A lot of people have been burnt by "asset flip" games, where games are 90% market place assets and purchased mechanics/systems. So many new games have fallen due to reviewers, large youtubers and communities being hyped about games, then finding out the game is all purchased content.

It's a fine line you have to tread carefully, and have to be very open about - especially when it comes to advertising your game in public spaces. You don't want to end up like all those other games.
does it matter if everything is copied?

if the end result is good why should be that a problem?

who cares? and why? it doesnt matter if you copie whole game mechanics if the end result is good, fuck it. they should buy every shit they need to safe time to focus on balancing and fun gameplay and bug fixing instead of costom fuckshit that nnone cares if its copied or not.

who fuck cares if a house is copied or not? woudl you rather have a dev make 50hours work a house or 50 hours bugfix, i would say bugfix is better fuck the house it looks even better when copied and not self made. so fuck it.

sry to destroy some imaginations, but that time sink of complete custom shit would be nonsense in any way. time wasting and it would look shitty. sry but true.

you could say the same in web development why people use CMS and not make thier own. because it makes fucking more sense time wise to use a CMS instead of making your own CMS.

same with the fuckign engine noone really noone cares about the fuckign engine because why should they the end result matter. or do your homework and grades matter now? i dont know your country but some jobs are like can you do it or not fuck grades.
and some are like dont matter if you cheatet on exams or not the end result count fuck the rest.

i hope that ge tin your brains that 99% of shit you play on steam are copied and paid mechanics otherwise games would have dev time form 100years. even game like forest, rust, gloria victis, h1z1 copy shit like hell an noone cares, why should someone care about that.

party hard
 
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deathshroud

Exalted Member
You have to be really careful with using market place assets. A lot of people have been burnt by "asset flip" games, where games are 90% market place assets and purchased mechanics/systems. So many new games have fallen due to reviewers, large youtubers and communities being hyped about games, then finding out the game is all purchased content.

It's a fine line you have to tread carefully, and have to be very open about - especially when it comes to advertising your game in public spaces. You don't want to end up like all those other games.
This is kinda my issue. I have seen Asset flip games and even been burnt by them in the past so naturally i am always a little weary of games that rely heavily on assets from the store.

A year ago i had the chance to work on a new MOBA game using UE4. I was hyped to be working on a game that planned to go to release but a few months in i dropped out of the project because i felt that the direction they were going in was the wrong direction and partly becuase they also planned to heavily use the asset store.
 

Sebastian Persson

Developer
Staff member
This is kinda my issue. I have seen Asset flip games and even been burnt by them in the past so naturally i am always a little weary of games that rely heavily on assets from the store.
I was in this camp like a year ago or so.
I detested games that used way too much just marketplace stuff, my position has changed when library has grown however and at this point there's a lot of solid stuff out there and enough of it to keep every game from looking the same.
 
I was in this camp like a year ago or so.
I detested games that used way too much just marketplace stuff, my position has changed when library has grown however and at this point there's a lot of solid stuff out there and enough of it to keep every game from looking the same.
Marketplace stuff should be used to support the game design, lore and feeling. You just need to be carefull that it's not the other way around, and the marketplace stuff forces a certain game design.
In MO1 there are a lot of different places that result in an unique experience.

The canyon at Kranesh with a lot mountains and houses that can be used for position advantages in PVP.
Or the bushes and rocks down the fabernum river that are great for hiding and ambushing.
Or the meduli plain that is really a pain for foot to defend against mounteds.
Or those Bakti PVP hills that are a good point for a showdown of power without too much interferance of mounteds.

If you manage to create all those unique places and feelings with marketplace stuff I'm fine with it. But it would be a shame to see such unique places removed or replaced with reuse content due to lack of fitting marketplace stuff.
 

deathshroud

Exalted Member
there are many iconic assets in mo1 like the blast furnaces, the khurite settlements, fabernum and its tower, kranesh buildings and the stone statues in tindrem. I guess some stuff has to be unique because i doubt anything suitable for any of that would be on the asset store.

Meduli did look good from screenshots though and the Thursar looks great as well. Was meduli created with shop assets?
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
Marketplace stuff should be used to support the game design, lore and feeling. You just need to be carefull that it's not the other way around, and the marketplace stuff forces a certain game design.
In MO1 there are a lot of different places that result in an unique experience.

The canyon at Kranesh with a lot mountains and houses that can be used for position advantages in PVP.
Or the bushes and rocks down the fabernum river that are great for hiding and ambushing.
Or the meduli plain that is really a pain for foot to defend against mounteds.
Or those Bakti PVP hills that are a good point for a showdown of power without too much interferance of mounteds.

If you manage to create all those unique places and feelings with marketplace stuff I'm fine with it. But it would be a shame to see such unique places removed or replaced with reuse content due to lack of fitting marketplace stuff.
Agree 100%. Well said.
 
does it matter if everything is copied?

if the end result is good why should be that a problem?

who cares? and why? it doesnt matter if you copie whole game mechanics if the end result is good, fuck it. they should buy every shit they need to safe time to focus on balancing and fun gameplay and bug fixing instead of costom fuckshit that nnone cares if its copied or not.

who fuck cares if a house is copied or not? woudl you rather have a dev make 50hours work a house or 50 hours bugfix, i would say bugfix is better fuck the house it looks even better when copied and not self made. so fuck it.

sry to destroy some imaginations, but that time sink of complete custom shit would be nonsense in any way. time wasting and it would look shitty. sry but true.

you could say the same in web development why people use CMS and not make thier own. because it makes fucking more sense time wise to use a CMS instead of making your own CMS.

same with the fuckign engine noone really noone cares about the fuckign engine because why should they the end result matter. or do your homework and grades matter now? i dont know your country but some jobs are like can you do it or not fuck grades.
and some are like dont matter if you cheatet on exams or not the end result count fuck the rest.

i hope that ge tin your brains that 99% of shit you play on steam are copied and paid mechanics otherwise games would have dev time form 100years. even game like forest, rust, gloria victis, h1z1 copy shit like hell an noone cares, why should someone care about that.

party hard
Who cares? I don't know, millions of gamers world wide who have seen the same purchased assets and game mechanics/systems in dozens of games? People like see hard work being put into a game and feeling and experiencing the progression in the development of a game. Not wait months and months for patches, only to find out 90% of things are purchased, then the questions of "What have the devs actually been doing" pop up.

What I gave is solid advice. If SV goes down the road of heavily utilizing paid marketplace content, then they need to be fully transparent in their advertisements publicly about it. Or what's happened to 100s if not 1000s of games could happen to them. Why take a bullet, when you can avoid it? As other have pointed out, Mortal Online has it's very own aesthetic and feel to the world too, straying too far away from what is MO could really kill the vibe in locations in the world.

How does an artist spending 50 hours working on a custom asset, affect 50 hours of a programmer tweaking and revising code to bug fix? Not sure you are aware, but game artist work on assets/models, textures etc not code.

It's not about copying things in other games, it's about using publicly bought assets and systems from a public marketplace. Imagine buying 10 different games and 3/10 of those games had the same building models, player models, movement animations, driving physics, environmental sounds, weapon models. The only differences were game title, setting, objectives and progression. Basically a Sergey Titov experience(If you even know who he is). Congrats, you just paid for the same shit in games you thought were completely different - You are now an official smooth brain.

99%? That statistic smells like shit, maybe because you pulled it from your arse. I get it, you want MO2 to happen as fast as possible, so you will fanboy and praise everything. Me, I want the game to succeed, but I'm not a brown noser and will express concerns when needed. Praising everything and letting shit slide is a major reason MO1 went down the path it did.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
Who cares? I don't know, millions of gamers world wide who have seen the same purchased assets and game mechanics/systems in dozens of games? People like see hard work being put into a game and feeling and experiencing the progression in the development of a game. Not wait months and months for patches, only to find out 90% of things are purchased, then the questions of "What have the devs actually been doing" pop up.
What I gave is solid advice. If SV goes down the road of heavily utilizing paid marketplace content, then they need to be fully transparent in their advertisements publicly about it. Or what's happened to 100s if not 1000s of games could happen to them. Why take a bullet, when you can avoid it? As other have pointed out, Mortal Online has it's very own aesthetic and feel to the world too, straying too far away from what is MO could really kill the vibe in locations in the world.
How does an artist spending 50 hours working on a custom asset, affect 50 hours of a programmer tweaking and revising code to bug fix? Not sure you are aware, but game artist work on assets/models, textures etc not code.
It's not about copying things in other games, it's about using publicly bought assets and systems from a public marketplace. Imagine buying 10 different games and 3/10 of those games had the same building models, player models, movement animations, driving physics, environmental sounds, weapon models. The only differences were game title, setting, objectives and progression. Basically a Sergey Titov experience (If you even know who he is). Congrats, you just paid for the same shit in games you thought were completely different - You are now an official smooth brain.

99%? That statistic smells like shit, maybe because you pulled it from your arse. I get it, you want MO2 to happen as fast as possible, so you will fanboy and praise everything. Me, I want the game to succeed, but I'm not a brown noser and will express concerns when needed. Praising everything and letting shit slide is a major reason MO1 went down the path it did.
Do you really think that by transparent explanations of their process (involving using store-bought assets, or in your words (heavily) "utilizing paid marketplace content") to the world at large...

(somewhat large; maybe not as big as "millions of gamers worldwide"; Mortal Online 2 will still be a niche game, don't you think? Some gamers will look at the barest description of it and not find a particle of interest because of "full-loot" and so on.)

...that Star Vault will be able to dodge the bullet of which you speak? I don't pretend to know if SV intends to purchase 90% of all the many things you listed ("assets and game mechanics/systems... building models, player models, movement animations, driving physics, environmental sounds, weapon models") --it sounds wildly, even trollishly hyperbolic to me-- but will the fussy worldwide horde of millions or (more optimally) tens of thousands tolerate even 50% purchased parts? Or ten percent? If they're not going to like seeing anything they've seen before, MO2 is probably doomed.

I think if enough unique existing landmarks are kept, they'll be fine doing it the way Seb has outlined.​

Though it will be decidedly difficult for Star Vault to show all their previous hard work in detail inside the new game, to new people, at any rate; none of them are going to be experiencing the same progression in the development of a game that we did.

Lucky them.​

They're going to watch as the best parts that Star Vault wishes to keep from MO1 are recreated in a new engine with its (to us, fresh) possibilities, and with (let's be honest) less input than we had about what should be done and how. They may or may not "wait months and months for patches", but for a long time don't you suppose that each patch will be less experimental than those we saw?


I foresee from what Henrik has said a lot more testing of things to see if they work as he wants them to, and a lot less testing to see what players like. That's probably going to be a good thing.​

When the questions of "What have the devs actually been doing" pop up, I don't think that a reasonable gamer (if there is such a thing) will totally ignore the ten+ years of development of the previous game. Unreasonable gamers will just be unreasonable, because that's what they're good at.
 
Do you really think that by transparent explanations of their process (involving using store-bought assets, or in your words (heavily) "utilizing paid marketplace content") to the world at large...

(somewhat large; maybe not as big as "millions of gamers worldwide"; Mortal Online 2 will still be a niche game, don't you think? Some gamers will look at the barest description of it and not find a particle of interest because of "full-loot" and so on.)

...that Star Vault will be able to dodge the bullet of which you speak? I don't pretend to know if SV intends to purchase 90% of all the many things you listed ("assets and game mechanics/systems... building models, player models, movement animations, driving physics, environmental sounds, weapon models") --it sounds wildly, even trollishly hyperbolic to me-- but will the fussy worldwide horde of millions or (more optimally) tens of thousands tolerate even 50% purchased parts? Or ten percent? If they're not going to like seeing anything they've seen before, MO2 is probably doomed.

I think if enough unique existing landmarks are kept, they'll be fine doing it the way Seb has outlined.​

Though it will be decidedly difficult for Star Vault to show all their previous hard work in detail inside the new game, to new people, at any rate; none of them are going to be experiencing the same progression in the development of a game that we did.

Lucky them.​

They're going to watch as the best parts that Star Vault wishes to keep from MO1 are recreated in a new engine with its (to us, fresh) possibilities, and with (let's be honest) less input than we had about what should be done and how. They may or may not "wait months and months for patches", but for a long time don't you suppose that each patch will be less experimental than those we saw?

I foresee from what Henrik has said a lot more testing of things to see if they work as he wants them to, and a lot less testing to see what players like. That's probably going to be a good thing.​

When the questions of "What have the devs actually been doing" pop up, I don't think that a reasonable gamer (if there is such a thing) will totally ignore the ten+ years of development of the previous game. Unreasonable gamers will just be unreasonable, because that's what they're good at.
Being transparent doesn't guarantee people won't flame or get angry over it. But stating you have market assets in your game does dodge a bullet. One thing reviewers, youtubers and especially gamers focus on is what is in games they've purchased access to. Not stating so puts up an image of the game is 100% made by the developers and people purchase into the game, thinking that. When they find out they didn't, they freak out and get flashbacks of tonnes of other games that done them dirty too.

Being honest about it and being like "We are a small indie team of 20 people, and with limited funding have a very ambitious title and a lot of work a head of us. For now and possibly the foreseeable future will utilize marketplace assets to help fill the gaps we are currently unable to fill ourselves." - Will give people that peace of mind.

Niche games can blow up. A few very Niche games I play, Rust, SQUAD, Escape from Tarkov were all extremely niche genre's of games that eventually blew up to over a million copies sold and 10,000's of active players weekly.

Rust originally during it's legacy days built a prototype game(Rust Legacy) and were open about the use of purchased assets to build a framework. Then they went on to develop Rust from the ground up once their team and funding grew.

The same with SQUAD. In it's pre-alpha days it used purchased U.S Soldier and Taliban models off of UE4 marketplace, but let the players know they were placeholder assets that are planned to be replace when they hire on more developers and acquire additional funding. A year later SQUAD was 100% market place asset free.

I hope this is the rout SV take, use marketplace assets as a form of placeholder and focus on growing the development team as well as focus on advertisement to help things even further. Being content with having a small team and limited funding, with the same 100 people playing wont see MO grow. SV has one chance to get the numbers of people playing they had back in Beta of MO1, for MO2. And most importantly of all, retain the playerbase to allow for proper growth in all fields.
 
im just going to take a wild guess and say that they are going to use this asset-flip to run the combat beta. but im just gonna watch from the sidelines. 150$ is way too much for a game.. let alone a beta.
 
im just going to take a wild guess and say that they are going to use this asset-flip to run the combat beta. but im just gonna watch from the sidelines. 150$ is way too much for a game.. let alone a beta.
yea man I can buy a house in mexico for $150, fuck this shit
 
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