Territory Control idea - Feedback wanted

Should territory owners be able to blacklist whole guilds and Alert Towers reporting them?

  • Yes

    Votes: 60 76.9%
  • No

    Votes: 18 23.1%

  • Total voters
    78
have you considered an inversion? make all lands outside of towns local gray territory. Have a whitelist instead where controlling guilds can give blue flag status to players they have vetted. guild members and any alliance guild members would be blue flagged by default in the sphere of influence.

also, why have any limitations on the size of the list?

-barcode
I'm quoting this because this is how it should be. The whole idea of a murder count system doesn't make sense unless it is reported to proper 'authorities' or governing bodies 'of the land'. i.e. You shouldn't receive a murder count when you're somewhere that is pretty much lawless, with no jurisdiction over it.
 
Towers shouldn't ping exact locations or numbers. If they -must- ping anything, simply display 'Enemies have been spotted in your territory!'. That's it. But even then I find it silly. Perhaps have a timer from when the player('s) / guild('s) are first 'spotted' entering they have to kill the sentry in a certain amount of time.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
I'm quoting this because this is how it should be. The whole idea of a murder count system doesn't make sense unless it is reported to proper 'authorities' or governing bodies 'of the land'. i.e. You shouldn't receive a murder count when you're somewhere that is pretty much lawless, with no jurisdiction over it.
The "you are witness to your own murder" concept (as a remnant of the Deva system, of which no other part has ever been developed nor, at this late date, ever probably will be) makes sense on the back of a napkin but has always seemed wrong to a lot of people.

For the umpteenth time, I'm going to point out that Shadowbane got along fine without it, and without flagging.

But against the Vision that Henrik has, that Mortal Online *shall have* flagging, murder counts, and universal law in the name of some reclusive (LIZARD) Emperor outside of any functional jurisdiction whatever, we could only beat our tiny fists bruised and bloody in vain.
 
Destroying a keep the towers should decay without the keep
 

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
I have 2 inputs here to make it better for both sides.

Are you able to make this mutual benefitial for both sides ? As in making blacklisted characters not receive murdercounts by killing members of the owners as you said when they are in the territory they are seen as crimminals, this makes guilds able to live inside someones territory as resurgence and wont be flagged further by leaving the territory they where made crimminals in.
That is one of the reasons so many go PK as in wars they will get flagged red by killing enemies unless you war dec the other side.

Please also make war declerations forced to accept so as to not tell players to go red if a guild dont have the balls to accept a declaration which in and by itself is pretty retarded: "I want to go to war against you, can you please accept so I can legally kill you ?" The whole war dec system is so anti anti-PK its laughable.

Giving guilds more control over how to rules their territory is very beneficial to those wanting to rule a region and will spark reasons for wars.

For example this type of large scale blacklisting might trigger smaller guilds to band together to siege down the territory owners. Which I dont have to state is very good for the game. Anything that sparks politics and meaningful conflict is good, reasons for sieges is also very good and might bring healthier active population.

And lastly have turning city guards off and making cities red like we back in Prae did to Moh Ki possible again or is that still a missing feature that was healthy for reasons of regional control ?

Next up you should try getting walls to decay if not linked to a keep to limit the insane ugly TS this game has spawned, it does nothing but ruin gameplay imo.
 

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
have you considered an inversion? make all lands outside of towns local gray territory. Have a whitelist instead where controlling guilds can give blue flag status to players they have vetted. guild members and any alliance guild members would be blue flagged by default in the sphere of influence.

also, why have any limitations on the size of the list?

-barcode
Dude, this is neat. I have a lot of interesting ideas for a system like that.
I have been asking for this for so many years now I do doubt we will ever get such a realistic system.
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
And lastly have turning city guards off and making cities red like we back in Prae did to Moh Ki possible again or is that still a missing feature that was healthy for reasons of regional control ?
You can turn guards off now, even impose taxes on city vendors.

Also, whats the logic behind forcing war on an unwilling group to give permission to kill them without penalty?

Why should guards not care?
 

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
You can turn guards off now, even impose taxes on city vendors.

Also, whats the logic behind forcing war on an unwilling group to give permission to kill them without penalty?

Why should guards not care?
Well...because....war shouldnt you know.....be an option if someone wants to go to war. And seeing as there are no entity you should ask permission in a lawless continent ruled by different tribes.

Do you think the US asked if they could war dec the mid east for their Opium and Oil ? I think not.
Do you think Persia asked if they could invade Greece ?
Do you think Vikings asked if they could pillage and rape Europe ?
Do you think my point is clear ?
Have you realized how retarded it is to ask permission to go to war with someone ?

Rather make it a gold sink to war dec, first cost a certain amount then doubble for every new war dec. Say 1k gold for 1st, 2k gold for 2nd, 3k gold for 3rd and so on.
Force a war dec to last a week minimum before a side can surrender or diplomacy might end it with a truce. Actions should have consequences.
If you fuck with someone, they shouldnt have to ask you permission to stomp you.
This is also a deterrent to anti-PK guilds that dont want to go red during war where the enemy is too chicken shit to accept a dec.

Mortal is supposed to be a hardcore dangerous world, not carebear online like it has turned into. Theres enough themeparks out there, no need to turn all hardcore MMOs into themeparks.

Well guards only serve in cities unless the territory is taken over by a guild. The Tindremic Empire and Khurite Tribes dont uphold rule in their territory outside cities so why should they dictate anything outside cities thats not taken over by players ?

The systems are highly limiting player choice which used to be what MO was about until SV sold out on their vision and caved to carebears.

Its good that you can turn cities red again finally, now to make guilds able to turn their entire terriory forced flagging red/gray/blue to let players govern their own territory as incentive to rule areas.
 
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You can turn guards off now, even impose taxes on city vendors.

Also, whats the logic behind forcing war on an unwilling group to give permission to kill them without penalty?

Why should guards not care?
Because towns sometimes are not controlled by a guild with a keep, that can turn off guards, or set up blacklists, to keep pests out. GUTS controlled Fab with a keep, and then without a keep - And after we sold our keep, our way to maintain our hold over the Fabernum area, was by either;

A) Logging on to free to plays, or characters with low murder counts, waiting for geared players or crafters with full inventories, and then ganking everything we could, repeatedly.
B) Blowing up your shit around Fabernum.
C) War dec the guild of the people, but the people got a nice warning before the onslaught happened and was a good indicator, to get the fuck out of our town.

Wouldn't you rather have C occur, instead of A or B?

Another example is Tindrem guilds, there's always been one or two guilds that like to sit in the graveyard and spend literal hours a day killing new people or characters, to farm titles. You know the ones doing the ol' local grey trick? then running off to the back and logging off before capable characters, or experienced players turned up? One of the best ways to counter these guilds, was to instant war dec them, and kill them around Tindrem.

War decs were also a way to play mind games with an enemy, sometimes we would war dec and harrass guilds until the point they payed us gold to stop.

Do we have these interactions on MO these days? Nope, because majority of people decline wardecs, or ignore the boring faction system before interactions like these could happen. Nave is a world with multiple safety blankets, instead of the harsh hardcore world it was supposed to be.
 
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Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
Force a war dec to last a week minimum before a side can surrender or diplomacy might end it with a truce. Actions should have consequences.
When one side surrenders rather than being beaten, this also comes with consequences. MO history shows this, complete with reparations, recriminations, and the egregious slaughter of go-betweens. I was there.

Why should you care how long someone else's war lasts? If you don't want to accept a surrender at any time or before any length of time, don't-- without trying to make rules for situations not your own. Any third party wanting a surrender from a fourth party 'right-fuckin'-NOW' is surely entitled to demand it.

Otherwise, you've got some sensible ideas there.
 

Yeonan

Trial Member
Well...because....war shouldnt you know.....be an option if someone wants to go to war. And seeing as there are no entity you should ask permission in a lawless continent ruled by different tribes.

Do you think the US asked if they could war dec the mid east for their Opium and Oil ? I think not.
Do you think Persia asked if they could invade Greece ?
Do you think Vikings asked if they could pillage and rape Europe ?
Do you think my point is clear ?
Have you realized how retarded it is to ask permission to go to war with someone ?

Rather make it a gold sink to war dec, first cost a certain amount then doubble for every new war dec. Say 1k gold for 1st, 2k gold for 2nd, 3k gold for 3rd and so on.
Force a war dec to last a week minimum before a side can surrender or diplomacy might end it with a truce. Actions should have consequences.
If you fuck with someone, they shouldnt have to ask you permission to stomp you.
This is also a deterrent to anti-PK guilds that dont want to go red during war where the enemy is too chicken shit to accept a dec.

Mortal is supposed to be a hardcore dangerous world, not carebear online like it has turned into. Theres enough themeparks out there, no need to turn all hardcore MMOs into themeparks.

Well guards only serve in cities unless the territory is taken over by a guild. The Tindremic Empire and Khurite Tribes dont uphold rule in their territory outside cities so why should they dictate anything outside cities thats not taken over by players ?

The systems are highly limiting player choice which used to be what MO was about until SV sold out on their vision and caved to carebears.

Its good that you can turn cities red again finally, now to make guilds able to turn their entire terriory forced flagging red/gray/blue to let players govern their own territory as incentive to rule areas.
That doesnt answer the question of why guards should not care about someone being murdered inside a town.

If the UK declared war on Japan, could UK citizens start killing Japanese in the US? No, the local law enforcement would not stand idly by, which is the point im making.

If a guild owns a town then yes, they should be able to declare war and kill those opposing members in their town without guards interfering (or even having guards atttack that group)

And i also agree you should be able to declare other guilds as enemies, preventing murder counts.

The idea of tindremic lictors letting random people kill eachother is what makes no sense.
 

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
When one side surrenders rather than being beaten, this also comes with consequences. MO history shows this, complete with reparations, recriminations, and the egregious slaughter of go-betweens. I was there.

Why should you care how long someone else's war lasts? If you don't want to accept a surrender at any time or before any length of time, don't-- without trying to make rules for situations not your own. Any third party wanting a surrender from a fourth party 'right-fuckin'-NOW' is surely entitled to demand it.

Otherwise, you've got some sensible ideas there.
Agreed it would serve as a mechanic limitation to dictate the minimum length of a conflict. Limitations should be severly limited in sandbox games imo. Good catch.


As another example on why permission based war declaration is bad was when I in Prae war decced Koto and their allies AQ war decced us in return as they where more skilled in combat.
I then told Koto that I would accept AQs only after they accepted ours, which ofc did not happen since they knew they would get crushed. So after a few days I accepted AQs declaration and we went on the Second Crusade against AQ and made them leave the game with our allies.

So from 2 war decs spawned a server war that brough an insane amount of player activity. Which I shouldnt have to say is very healthy for the game SV !!!!!
 

ThaBadMan

Exalted Member
That doesnt answer the question of why guards should not care about someone being murdered inside a town.

If the UK declared war on Japan, could UK citizens start killing Japanese in the US? No, the local law enforcement would not stand idly by, which is the point im making.

If a guild owns a town then yes, they should be able to declare war and kill those opposing members in their town without guards interfering (or even having guards atttack that group)

And i also agree you should be able to declare other guilds as enemies, preventing murder counts.

The idea of tindremic lictors letting random people kill eachother is what makes no sense.
I agree that guards should be able to attack the aggressors while in towns but should stop at city limits and not shoot magic nor arrows after someone outside city limits. Which is hard for SV to implement, since its still happening now after years of players wanting such a limitation on guards blatant disregard to their actual duty which is to protect a city not chase bandits in the wilderness unless on patrol.

This is one aspect of instawacking old guards that where better than new ones.
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
You can turn guards off now, even impose taxes on city vendors.

Also, whats the logic behind forcing war on an unwilling group to give permission to kill them without penalty?

Why should guards not care?
Why should guards not care? I hate bringing realism into games, but let's think back in history when there were small villages here and there. Do you think a guard would know if you killed someone out in the wild? If he did know...do you think he would really give a shit? I'd wager he wouldn't as long as you're not stirring up trouble in his town or near it.

Crimes should have to be reported by a witness. The flagging system is terrible and I'd even say immersion breaking. It just doesn't fit.
 
Do you think a guard would know if you killed someone out in the wild?
No.

And, please, no-one say "deva". I've never seen any convincing evidence supporting the existence of that particular system, except for the unrealistic and stultifying way that it contributes to the whole débâcle that is "MO Murder Counts". It wastes electricity, it contributes to smog & rising seas, it kills butterflies in the rainforests.
GET RID OF IT.
 
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