Understanding The Primordial Deities

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:Introduction:

the primordial deities or Protogenoi as they are sometimes known, are the first gods and goddesses born from the void Creation of chaos , it has been interpreted as either "the gaping void above the Nave created when Earth and Sky are separated from their primordial unity" or "the gaping space below the Earth rests" .

According To Tindrem University Chaos was the first thing to exist: "at first Chaos came to be" (or was) but next (possibly out of Chaos) Unambiguously "born" from Chaos were The 8 Primordial Deities : "Erebus , Nave , Crepitea , Skadi , Pontos , Sunna , Maal , Thalassa" ... Primal Chaos was sometimes said to be the true foundation of reality , The notion of the temporal infinity was familiar to the Mortal mind from remote antiquity in the religious conception of immortality This idea of the divine as an origin influenced the first Mortal philosophers , The main object of the first efforts to explain the world remained the description of its growth , from a beginning Mortals believed that the world arose out from a primal unity, and that this substance was the permanent base of all its being that the origin is aepeirona (the unlimited) , a divine and perpetual substance less definite than the common elements , Everything is generated from aepeirona , and must return there according to necessity, Mortals used to worship Them as Gods and Named The Planets of our Solar system to them after known as" the 8 Pantheons " is intimately tied to the solar system that Nave exists in The "Pantheon" are the Tindremene gods

According to a Scripted Text Preserved in the Archives of Tindrem University Mortal Realm Was Created From The Meeting of both Nave and Erebus :

"At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Maal , Nave , the air and heaven had no existence . Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a gormless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Chaos , and from this , after the revolution of long ages , sprang the graceful Nave with her glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. she mated Erebus in deep Maal with dark Chaos, winged like herself, and thus hatched forth our race , which was the first to see the light , That of the mortals did not exist until Nave had brought together all the ingredients of the world, and from their marriage Heaven, Ocean, Earth and the imperishable race of blessed gods sprang into being. Thus our origin is very much older than that of the dwellers in Sunna . We are the offspring of Nave there are a thousand proofs to show it.We have The Power and we lend assistance to others . How many handsome youths, who had sworn to remain insensible, have opened their thighs because of our power and have yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of Nave"



Who is Erebus ? :

Erebus /ˈɛrɪbəs, əb also ErebosἜρεβος, Érebos, "deep darkness, shadow] or "covered , was often conceived as a primordial deity , representing the personification of darkness for instance Mortals identifies him as one of the first five beings in existence, born of Chaos , The perceived meaning of Erebus is "darkness"; the first recorded instance of it was "place of darkness between Nave and Maal , The name Ἔρεβος itself originates from iegʷ-es/os- "darkness".

According To The Legends Erebus is the offspring of Chaos, and brother to Maal , "From Chaos came forth Erebus and black Night Maal ; but of Night were born Dawn and Day Nave , whom she conceived and bore from union in love with Erebus "

Erebus features little in mythological tradition and literature, but is said to have fathered several other deities with Nave , depending on the source of the mythology, this union includes Pontos and Thalassa .

in Shinarian Literature the name Erebus is also used as a region of the Eather World where the dead pass immediately after dying .



Maal:

Maal is a Primordial Deities , a goddess (or personification) of the night. A shadowy figure, Maal stood at or near the beginning of creation and mothered other personified deities such as Nave (Dawn and Day) and Crepitea (Death),She is sister with Erebus (Darkness) a Direct Born of Chaos . She is the Great Grandma of Pontos & Thalassa Her appearances are sparse in surviving mythology, but reveal her as a figure of such exceptional power and beauty that she is feared by Sunna herself.

in The Mortal Mythology Maal is born of Chaos With Erebus (Darkness), Maal gives birth to Nave (Brightness Day , Dawn ) Later after Nave and Erebus union and Brought Life To Mortal Realm , on her own, Maal gives birth to Crepitea (Doom , Destiny , Destruction, Death , Fate , Retribution), and Skadi (Sleep , Dreams , Blame , Pain, Distress , Indignation, Deceit ) .

In his description of Chaos , locates there the home of Maal and the homes of her children Crepitea and Skadi , Mortals says further that Maal daughter Nave (Day) left just as Maal (Night) entered it; continuing cyclical, when Nave returned, Maal left , There was no known temple dedicated to Maal, but statues are known to have been made of her and a few cult practices of her are mentioned, According to Scholars , she had an oracle on the acropolis at Old Tindrem :

"When you have ascended the citadel [of Rich District] , you see a temple , a sanctuary built to Sunna (she who turns men to love), an oracle called that of Maal (Night) and a temples of Sunna, Skadi ( Dusty) without a roof " .

More often, Maal was worshipped in the background of other cults , Thus there was a statue called "Night" in the Temple of Sunna The Tindremic , and a cult of Sleep and Death, conceived of as twins Cult titles composed of compounds of Maal - are attested for several deities, most notably Name were Caducus and Tricapitions "who loves the whole night" , authors mentioned cult practices and wrote hymns in her honor .



Nave :

Nave is The Day") was the personification of day and one of the primordial deities , She is the goddess of the Day Light , Dawn and daytime and, according to Mortal Legends She is The Daughter of Maal and The Wife of Erebus , she was the female counterpart of her brother and consort, Who ended before his time ? (Light), but neither of them figured actively in myth or cult, her children From Erebus are Pontos & Thalassa , Legends Stated that When" she mated Erebus in deep Maal with dark Chaos, winged like herself, and thus hatched forth our race , which was the first to see the light , That of the mortals did not exist until Nave had brought together all the ingredients of the world, and from their marriage Heaven, Ocean, Earth and the imperishable race of blessed gods sprang into being " Which means Nave / Erebus By Law of Nature is The Direct Creator of Mortal Realm Thus Make Nave Our Mother .

Nave Had been presented - Adopted By many other Cultures " Somaku and migii For khurite " and " Mara For Sarducaans and Nords " there was a Temple Dedicated to her inside Shinaria Sunken Kingdom but now its a Ruin .

Nave is Descried as a Mighty Female Goddess With glittering golden wings swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest Who Carries The Power of Light and Life in Her Hands Some Say She is the opposite Power of Maal " her Mother " and Equal Power To Erebus .



Pontus and Thalassa :

Pontus (/ˈpɒntəs/; Πόντος, Póntos, "Sea") was an ancient Primordial Deity sea-god, one of the 8 Deities born From Chaos , Pontus was Nave and Erebus son Same as Thalassa ,Pontus seems little more than a personification of the sea he fathered all sea life , He Was Married To His Sister Thalassa and Both of The Royal couple Ruled Over The Sea , Rain and Water There offspring's According To The Legends were "Storm giants and Mermaids , Aphrodite "Not Much is Known about Him unfortunately, Thus Some Scholars Found that In a Shinarian sculpture of the 7th century B.C, Pontus, rising from seaweed, grasps a rudder with his right hand and leans on the prow of a ship. He wears a mural crown, and accompanies Fortuna, whose draperies appear at the left, as twin patron deities of the Coral Sea Port in Sidoia .

Thalassa (/θəˈlæsə : Θάλασσα, "sea") was the Goddess of the sea and Warfare Thalassa is clearly connected to seas and many examples Prove That theory in Mortal Realm , such as"Thalassa Snakes"and the "Mouth of Thalassa" existing on the old map Its also be mentioned that the "Flow of Pontos" is on this map next to a similar symbol , She is Described As the Daughter of Nave and Erebus , With her male counterpart Pontus, she spawned the storm gods and the tribes of fish , fables were devoted to her by Shinarians and she was depicted in both artistic and literary works For Long Time .



Skadi:

Skadi In Nordic mythology, Skaði (sometimes anglicized as Skadi, Skade, or Skathi) is a jötunn and goddess (Sleep , Dreams , Skys , Blame , Pain, Distress , Indignation, Deceit ) and one of The Nine . associated with bowhunting, skiing, winter, and mountains. Skaði is attested in the Poetic Edda, She is The Daughter of Maal and Wife of Crepitea Toghter They Produces Sunna , Skaði is alternately referred to as Öndurguð (Old Norse 'ski god') and Öndurdís (Old Nordic 'ski dís') , The etymology of the name Skaði is uncertain, but may be connected with the original form of NordVeld Some place names in NordVeld refer to Skaði. Scholars have theorized a potential connection between Skaði and the god Erebus , and that Nordveld may be related to the name Skaði (potentially meaning 'Skaði's island') or the name may be connected to an Old Nordic noun meaning 'harm'. Skaði has inspired various works of art For Example There is a Stanza Between Skadi and Her Husband Crepitea in Kallard Literature its starts When Crepitea Says :

"Hateful for me are the mountains,
I was not long there,only nine nights.
The howling of the wolves
sounded ugly to me
after the song of the swans."


Skadi Responds :

"Sleep I could not
on the sea beds
for the screeching of the bird.
That gull wakes me
when from the wide sea
he comes each morning."




Crepitea:

Direct Son of Maal ,Has No Father , Brother To Nave and Husband and Brother of Skadi , Father To Sunna he is a Norse God of (Doom , Destiny , Destruction, Death , Fate , Retribution) Some Would Call Him god of wars and Fights To Come , Born in the Chaos also an agricultural guardian, a combination characteristic of early Mortals , He was second in importance only to Maal and he was the most prominent of the military gods in the religion of the Kallard army , Most of his festivals and Military Vectors were held in His name , he often represents the physical or violent and untamed aspect of war, in contrast to his sister, An association with endows places and objects with a savage, dangerous, or militarized quality, His value as a war god is placed in doubt: during the Wars of Tindrem , Although he received occasional sacrifice from armies going to war, the god had a formal temple and cult at only a few sites in NordVeld , Till This Day The Fighter and Warriors of Nordveld Pray and offer Sacrifices in his Name as a Part of 2000 years Ritual though he isnt Worhsiped Wildly like before .

in Legends The God of Death and Retribution Crepitea Grow anger and Despute From The Shinarians Who Neglected Him and Worshiped His Uncle "Erebus" , and His Son and Daughter Thalassa , Pontus God and Goddess of seas and Navy Warfare as There Main Gods , He Decide To Humiliate The Shinarians and Avenge For his Pride , after All isn't he The God of Retribution! , Crepitea Search The Lands For The Best Capable Warriors Who Will Fight in His Name So May his Influence Grow Stronger , He Find His Need in The Men of NordVeld a fierce proud warriors. The Kallard warriors who value their fierce independence, are hardy in the thankless severity of their lands, and are comfortable with appalling violence as a daily occurrence , They Had a Bad Blood with The Shinarians Which Would Make Them The Perfect Tools To Execute Crepitea Revenge , He Approaches Them and Bestow His Gift and Power Upon There Race So " They may Never Know Fear of Death or Destiny and there Hands Bring Doom and Destruction to There Foes " Crepitea Lead The Hords of Men To Append The Worst Defeat on The shinarians
and For-fill His Retribution .





Sunna:

Sól ( "Love , Sun") or Sunna is The Last of 8 of Primordial Deities Godess To Sun , Love , Friendship , Honor and Justice , Daughter of Crepitea and Skadi is the Sun personified in Nordic mythology Just Like Her Mother skadi Skadi (Sleep , Dreams , Blame , Pain, Distress , Indignation, Deceit ) . and Her Father Crepitea (Doom , Destiny , Destruction, Death , Fate , Retribution) , Sól is attested in the Poetic Edda from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in Kallard Language , In both the Poetic Edda and the Prose Edda she is described as the Shinny Example of Rightness and Justice , Honor and Kindness at times referred to as " Álfröðull ", and is foretold to be killed by a monstrous wolf during the events of a Great Battle , though beforehand she will have given birth to a daughter who continues her mother's course through the heavens. In the Prose Edda, she is additionally described as Young Youth in Love with a Man and Married before her Death ,Sól appears throughout Old Norde literature.

Scholars have produced theories about the development of the goddess From Immortality To Mortality Scholars have proposed that Sól, as a goddess, may represent an extension of an earlier deity Like The Edda Stated :

"The sun from the south, the moon's companion,
her right hand cast about the heavenly horses.T
he sun knew not where she a dwelling had,
the moon know not what power he possessed,
the stars knew not where they had a station
"




Epilogue
While these are the first 8 gods of Chaos are generally agreed upon , there are others that tend to be lumped in with the primordial gods , The most important of these is probably Umbra who is both a primordial god and who will later become known as a prison for monsters, There are, though, a number of other primordial concepts that are usually added to this list , A few of them include Zelua "The Aspect peac" , Caerus , and Some times The Norse God Camulos , Depending on which mythology you choose to read, there may be dozens of others concepts added to the list of primordial gods.

More important than who these gods were to the Mortals is what they represented, These were the gods that represented the big concepts from the beginning of time, the gods that laid the foundations for all of the other gods.


Gods and Goddess Story's Had The Creates influence on Mortal Cultures Specially The Kallardian and There 3 Notable Gods and Goddess , A spiritual relationship existed between the Kallard and the life-force of breathing, which is associated with the Goddess of The Sun " Sol , Sunna" and Her Mother " Skadi " They believe That When Sunna Associated With The Goddess Skadi They gave Men the ability to speak and Express .

The Kallard have another Deity That Influenced There Life Style and Culture its The Famous Crepitea its believed That back in The old Days of Mortals The God of Death and Retribution Crepitea Grown Upset From The Shinarians Who Neglected Him and Worshiped Erebus , Thalassa , Pontus as There Main Gods , He Decided To Avenge from The Shinarians and For That he Decided To Launch a Great War , But Wars need Men and Not just any kind of Men , Wars Need Men who Can Endure The Battle Heat and Most of All To Fight in his Name So his Influence May Grow Stronger , So Crepitea Searched in All The Realm of Men Till he Found Men Who had a natural resistance to the Cold which evolved due to their settlement in the northern, colder reaches of NordVeld , Men who had prowess as warriors , The Kallard , With No Hesitation Crepitea Approached Them and Bestow His Gift upon Them , Leading There Armies Across The Frozen Deserts of Nordveld Towards Victory and Honor , They Fought in his name and Dishonored The Shinarians For The Honor of Crepitea and Thus Crepitea Wishes were True , After that Crepita was worshiped as There God Side to His Wife Skadi nad There Daughter " Sunna "who was born Later , Those Story's Shaped The Hearts and Minds of The Kallardian individuals and Characters and their political climate that become as shifting and dangerous as the winds , There Eagerness to augment their martial skills beyond the traditional methods of Nordveld they excel in all manner of traditional warfare. Kallard culture centers on the quest for honor and glory To Honor There Gods , with emphasis also on the family and community , Kallardian see themselves as eternal Soldiers and invaders of Crepitea, and even when they conquer and rule another people; they feel no kinship with them , Coming from a warlike culture, they believe that an honorable death in battle will grant them entrance into The Heavens and The Satisfaction of Crepitea .

When you see the primordial gods in The Mortal tales, they usually exist as either the gods that are somehow greater in scope than the actual gods " Nave " or as the gods that gave birth to the other gods " Maal " These are the gods that are even less connected to humanity than their Mortal counterparts, usually having no interaction with Men - Mer Race at all , The primordial gods are a group of gods that help to lay the foundation for what will come next in the Mortal world. As concepts, they’re too big to make human. Instead, they help to give birth to the things that are more easily understood and provide the background for stories that have a great impact on the lives of those who followed the ancient religions , Even Though they don’t play a large role in the ancient tales, they nonetheless are what most of these stories are built upon .

The End

Your Faithful
@Great genral Mingxia
 
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lol. Is nice man. Is very interesting work. You have my admiration.
but...What about Soldeus?¿
Not is one of original gods of nave?
 
After the astonishing tindrem event, with the appearance of the mysterious flying creature, Casilda believes that it is a divine sign that coincides with original characteristics of the cult of Soldeus.
Do you think that throughout the history of Myrland, the original gods, have caused similar events?
Is there any record of such events?
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
After the astonishing tindrem event, with the appearance of the mysterious flying creature...
About which there seems no mystery at all, since it was the Śyenah; those who have seen it before have identified it beyond doubt.
Casilda believes that it is a divine sign that coincides with original characteristics of the cult of Soldeus.
I do? I know Śyenah as one of what some call 'the Great Beasts' of Nave, or 'her Titan Children'. There have been others (most, though not all of them, of Unusual Size-- i.e., the Svadilfari was the size of an ordinary horse) and their intermittent appearances are often wondered over as if they were portents. Sometimes, though, the only thing apparently portended was the creature's imminent death-- We need look no farther than the timely demise of the giant Lynx, Byakko:
byakko-he-made-a-lovely-rug.jpg
If they can be attacked, they can be killed. If killed, they do not return. If they are Gods, they are Lesser Gods. If they are children of the gods, they seem to be children of a lesser god.
Do you think that throughout the history of Myrland, the original gods, have caused similar events?

Is there any record of such events?
If the events you inquire after are the appearance or manifestation of the Great Beasts, then yes; I have named two examples of many. Who can forget the true tales of Giant Rabbits?

These occurences don't always seem to mean anything, though many folks both fear and wish that they will. When they do appear to mean something, it's not always certain what. For all their grand size, they seem to have been unsentient; the greatest and most obvious danger represented by the Śyenah might well be standing under where she is flying about when, as vulture-kind will, she disgorges some (massive amount) of carrion she has swallowed.
 
Thread starter #7
What about Soldeus?¿
Not is one of original gods of nave?
The Premative Deities "the Pantheons" are the First Deities the Mortals Worshipped, they are the names of our solar System Planet's "or perhaps our Solar system was named after them, for example Sunna "sol" is translated directly to word Sun " However Soldeus Came much after the Primitive Deities, he must be there Descendent or perhaps one aspect of a spirit of divine that were Weakened and became less powerful or Forgoten, So in order to avoid mortals fate "death and Forgotten" it Shaft to a new name and Forum.
Your question reminds me of a theory which was Discussd several years ago in the Halls of the Tindrem academy about "what happens to a Divine when he is weakened?" briefly it stated that when a Divine is neglected for some time.or his Influence grow weaker three thing's does happen to him :
A) he become a Demi-God loses much of his power and walk among mortals, he is still much powerful than any of them yet with time he become related More and more to the material world.

B) if he didn't shaft himself to new Forum "some sort of a Rebirth where he drop parts of his personality, attitude, glory and power" and become something totally different to maintain his main aspect he loses his immortality and become a Common Mortal vulnerable to death and being Harmed.

C) when the Divine finally Die he doesn't leave a Corpse behind he just turn to ashes and the last remaining part of his aspect find it's way back to the Chaos to be enchanted and reformed to give a brand new Aspects!.

After the astonishing tindrem event, with the appearance of the mysterious flying creature, Casilda believes that it is a divine sign that coincides with original characteristics of the cult of Soldeus.
Do you think that throughout the history of Myrland, the original gods, have caused similar events?
Is there any record of such events?
Before the History of Men there were flying Beasts, Gaiant Creatures we see there Remains today, yet we don't have any know Record's to them, So you can't really tell .
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
What about Soldeus?¿
Not is one of original gods of nave?
The Premative Deities "the Pantheons" are the First Deities the Mortals Worshipped, they are the names of our solar System Planet's "or perhaps our Solar system was named after them, for example Sunna "sol" is translated directly to word Sun " However Soldeus Came much after the Primitive Deities, he must be there Descendent or perhaps one aspect of a spirit of divine that were Weakened and became less powerful or Forgoten, So in order to avoid mortals fate "death and Forgotten" it Shaft to a new name and Forum.
Ruben, my son, you have been answered with poorly worded nonsense & confused heresy.

From the scripture of the Church of Soldeus regarding the creation of all things, the origins of Light and of darkness, the formation of the "Sun God" (Soldeus, also known as Sunna and by many other names) with His Radiance, Gravitas, and creative Energy, the faithful can easily comprehend that the Primordial Deities are precisely Our Radiant Lord & His Brother, Umbra (the Darkness, the Cold, the Thing that Hides in the Dark). Nave, our mother planet, was formed as were the other worlds in His orbit, and each one is the physical manifestation of the Divine spirit that inhabits its particular sphere. Has the Sun gone black, that any of us have forgotten Our Heavenly & Celestial Father? Does He not hold them all in place, and supply each with His Light & Warmth? In the old days, the Armillogion, which was an orrery, showed Soldeus at the center of things. It was not incorrect in doing so.

The pantheon, "all gods" as known to the Tindremines-- though they are a people benighted by decadence and a shocking lack of conscience in their culture--

mocounter_ghostletters23.jpg

is also accurate enough as regards what may be called 'planetary' deities. They also inherited some science from the Shinarians (whose ideas of religion are still either a mystery or mere conjecture-- but let it be noted that whatever they gave worship to, even if it was their own intellect, did not save them from the Doom that came to them) and borrowed more from other races (notably, the Huergar). But their theology and their native knowledge are past their prime, and cannot be relied upon in all details.
 
Ruben, my son, you have been answered with poorly worded nonsense & confused heresy.

From the scripture of the Church of Soldeus regarding the creation of all things, the origins of Light and of darkness, the formation of the "Sun God" (Soldeus, also known as Sunna and by many other names) with His Radiance, Gravitas, and creative Energy, the faithful can easily comprehend that the Primordial Deities are precisely Our Radiant Lord & His Brother, Umbra (the Darkness, the Cold, the Thing that Hides in the Dark). Nave, our mother planet, was formed as were the other worlds in His orbit, and each one is the physical manifestation of the Divine spirit that inhabits its particular sphere. Has the Sun gone black, that any of us have forgotten Our Heavenly & Celestial Father? Does He not hold them all in place, and supply each with His Light & Warmth? In the old days, the Armillogion, which was an orrery, showed Soldeus at the center of things. It was not incorrect in doing so.

The pantheon, "all gods" as known to the Tindremines-- though they are a people benighted by decadence and a shocking lack of conscience in their culture--

View attachment 12670

is also accurate enough as regards what may be called 'planetary' deities. They also inherited some science from the Shinarians (whose ideas of religion are still either a mystery or mere conjecture-- but let it be noted that whatever they gave worship to, even if it was their own intellect, did not save them from the Doom that came to them) and borrowed more from other races (notably, the Huergar). But their theology and their native knowledge are past their prime, and cannot be relied upon in all details.


What do we know about Soldeus' brother Umbra?
Is it a cruel deity? Do we have any idea what plans it holds for the people of Myrland?
And another question would be ... Is there any kind of confrontation between Soldeus and Umbra?
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
What do we know about Soldeus' brother Umbra? Is it a cruel deity? Do we have any idea what plans it holds for the people of Myrland?
  • "He was darkness, and he was where and what his Brother was not. His heart and hands were cold, and knew without being taught how to break and mar things." "Umbra, whose heart was cold, pridefully displayed to (Nave) his ideas, which he considered superior to Hers. His dark and demented creations-- and his perversions of Her ideas, as She brought them forth-- he paraded in front of Her, enjoying Her repulsion and, most of all, Her fear, which was the first in all the universe. He looked forward to having power over Her against her will, to having possession of Her, and perhaps more than anything to hiding Her from his brother forever." "He slew Nave in a fit of jealous rage and cast her body out of the Heavens. Thus, he marred himself forever, beyond any power to mend."
  • Is it a cruel deity? Yes, as stated above: a destroyer, who mars things for the sake of seeing them ruined; a tormentor; delighting in frightening; perverse; a rapist; an abductor; a murderer, and the first one of all these things.
  • Do we have any idea what plans it holds for the people of Myrland? Yes. All the children of Nave are targeted for Umbra's corruption and enslavement, because Umbra is unendingly jealous due to his inability to keep possession of their mother, and full of dire hatred for any sign of the Light of their Father (Soldeus) in their eyes. See: https://web.archive.org/web/2016102...threads/soldeus-the-creations-of-nave.135203/
  • This is just one of the things that worship of Umbra leads to: aDBNLoU.png
And another question would be ... Is there any kind of confrontation between Soldeus and Umbra?
From the beginning, there has been, as detailed in
https://www.starvault.se/mortalforums/threads/soldeus-of-creation.111092/
https://web.archive.org/web/2016102...threads/soldeus-the-creations-of-nave.135203/

And within living memory, there was an attack by the forces of Umbra on a gathering of Soldeus worshippers in Meduli, as outlined here:


https://starvault.se/mortalforums/threads/soldeus-worshipers-gather.74655/page-2#post-1305746

(This particular event was the first indication that the Kingdom of Wessex had been infiltrated by the benighted of Umbra, and their departure into obscurity and perdition was carried out not long after that event.)
 
  • "He was darkness, and he was where and what his Brother was not. His heart and hands were cold, and knew without being taught how to break and mar things." "Umbra, whose heart was cold, pridefully displayed to (Nave) his ideas, which he considered superior to Hers. His dark and demented creations-- and his perversions of Her ideas, as She brought them forth-- he paraded in front of Her, enjoying Her repulsion and, most of all, Her fear, which was the first in all the universe. He looked forward to having power over Her against her will, to having possession of Her, and perhaps more than anything to hiding Her from his brother forever." "He slew Nave in a fit of jealous rage and cast her body out of the Heavens. Thus, he marred himself forever, beyond any power to mend."
  • Is it a cruel deity? Yes, as stated above: a destroyer, who mars things for the sake of seeing them ruined; a tormentor; delighting in frightening; perverse; a rapist; an abductor; a murderer, and the first one of all these things.
  • Do we have any idea what plans it holds for the people of Myrland? Yes. All the children of Nave are targeted for Umbra's corruption and enslavement, because Umbra is unendingly jealous due to his inability to keep possession of their mother, and full of dire hatred for any sign of the Light of their Father (Soldeus) in their eyes. See: https://web.archive.org/web/2016102...threads/soldeus-the-creations-of-nave.135203/
  • This is just one of the things that worship of Umbra leads to: View attachment 12671
From the beginning, there has been, as detailed in
https://www.starvault.se/mortalforums/threads/soldeus-of-creation.111092/
https://web.archive.org/web/2016102...threads/soldeus-the-creations-of-nave.135203/


And within living memory, there was an attack by the forces of Umbra on a gathering of Soldeus worshippers in Meduli, as outlined here:

https://starvault.se/mortalforums/threads/soldeus-worshipers-gather.74655/page-2#post-1305746

(This particular event was the first indication that the Kingdom of Wessex had been infiltrated by the benighted of Umbra, and their departure into obscurity and perdition was carried out not long after that event.)
Impresive info.
 
(Mats here, writing from a temporary account)
Various ramblings
 
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Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
If it isn't Mats, then its a pretty convincing imitation of Mats. ;)
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
(Mats here, writing from a temporary account)

Surviving fragments of Ancient philosophy, well guarded in one of the great vaults of Clerus Magica, are still being copied and studied in modern theology, calculus and science of matter. Although not completely translated or understood, according to these, "nothing existed before Arkhe and Ma", as Arkhe was the beginning and Ma the space to be filled. However the Ancients believed that all things (including hypothetical things) must have a True Name, and the name of this hypothetical "nothing" was Mu. And as Mu symbolizes a thing, a concept, this in turn presented the Ancient thinkers with the paradoxical mystery "Mu existed before Arkhe". As this obviously couldn't be possible, what then, did Mu mean?

It seems that for a very long time the Mu paradox had no obvious solution. Whole incomplete chapters are filled with accounts on conflicts and listings of separatist cults. It even threatened to completely shatter the ruling Ancient Theurgy, until finally a solution was found. There are several versions of what became known as Ogloab's Axiom, but it is usually presented something like this:

A man who has been honest and righteous for all his life is asked the question “Have you stopped stealing from the offering shrine?”. The answer "yes" is wrong because it implies he used to steal from the shrine and then stopped, but the answer "no" is also wrong because it suggests that he is still stealing from shrine. The correct answer is “Mu”, meaning “your question cannot be answered because it depends on incorrect assumptions”.
Ogloab the Arbiter (year unknown)


Thus it was agreed that Mu is not just nothingness - it is an absence of anything, including meaning, so complete it collapses within itself. The name can be interpreted as “un-ask”, as in “You are asking the wrong question, unask it”. Yet another reading is “not even wrong”: an answer to a question or an argument based on assumptions that are known to be incorrect, or on theories that cannot be falsified or used to predict anything.

Some Ancient scholars theorized that if Ma is all-encompassing, Mu must also be the answer to what exists outside Ma. And if Arkhe and Ma are eternal, Mu is how to properly address what exists after them. There are no accounts on Mu being worshiped as a god or power, rather it was widely feared for its qualities as a metaphysical paradox - Mu has enormous implications as it is the Destroyer of Significance.

The Mu-symbol is however sometimes used in the calculus of the Ancients, but it is not a number (like for instance Ma - zero). It isn’t even similar to an empty space where a number is supposed to be written (the absence of a number); if used in an equation it seems to mean that the inputs are invalid, or that the result is “not a number": the equation is meaningless.
We miss you and all your "legendaryness".


Yeah...its a word.
 
When Mats suddenly shows up and reveals hidden lore about the world, it's either the end times or the beginning of something big and new.
 
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