What Did Mortal Online Do Right and Wrong?

Thread starter #1
Given the announcement of a Mortal Online 2 I figured I'd come back to discuss things, and the things I hated (some of which resulted in me quitting). Some of this may be outdated as I haven't played MO in years. Hopefully, some of it got addressed.

Things I enjoyed

- Full Loot and Territorial Control, I always enjoyed PvP actually having consequences.
- Forced First Person, Because I love the First-person perspective but it's straight handicapping yourself if it isn't forced.
- Detailed Crafting, I've never seen a game with as many options on how to make the same general item as MO, and that's great.
- The huge amount of depth in build customization, there were a lot of different builds you could go for with the available skills, that catered to a large variety of players.

Things I Hated

- Skillcap System - "One character can't do everything" translates to "So just get three accounts and grind a bazillion characters." It's a cancer system that is objectively worse for your average player than the EVE style system of "One character can do everything but your build/gear determines what you are capable of doing right now." Games are just straight more enjoyable to many people when a single main is a viable playstyle. It may give the game the illusion of being less grindy but it really is more grindy unless you're ok playing 1 character who can do one thing forever and ever amen. At bare minimum have a sperate combat skill and crafting skill cap so you can have a thief/assassin or hunter who skins and cooks.
- Your race / age choices made before you really understand the game can make your character straight useless and essentially force you to reroll. Anytime someone feels forced to reroll I consider that a failure of game design. It's cool that races are meaningful but every race should have multiple builds they are effective at and honestly, the age thing should be pure flavor instead of something that determines stats. Again MO gave the illusion of a huge amount of racial options but boiled down to a very small number of viable choices. Some races may as well have not existed at all if you care about being effective and generally there was a optimal age for the ones that were a viable option.

Things I Kind of Disliked

- Combat felt kind of clunky for an action MMO.
- Long term bugs like your ability bars randomly resetting.
- The thieving system was awesome on paper but I felt it's implementation was just annoying both as a thief and a victim. I hope there are more PVE things for thieves to do other than stand around at banks trying to pickpocket the same small (and wary before long) player-base over and over and over. They should still have a PvP option to rob other players. They should just have other things to do when the pickings are slim so being a thief is a fully viable playstyle (and less annoyingly persistent in constantly camping banks).

_____________

For me my enjoyment of MO2 will be largely based on the implementation of skills / character customization. If it's the exact same as MO1 I will give MO2 a pass most likely but if it's vastly improved I could see this becoming my new favorite MMO. Secondarily refinement of things like combat and thieving will definitely make the game more enjoyable.
 
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Thread starter #2
I'd also note that while crafting was one of the best-done aspects of MO, it still fell into the age-old trap of:

A. Gather the materials (This step takes 99% of your time)
B. 5 second timer
C. And it's done!

Yeah there may be some more time between A and B if you're experimenting with new recipes but Wurm Online is still the only game I've ever played that turned step B into a detailed process that makes crafting something you can do full-time if you want. A system that merged the best aspects of the Wurm system (Actually take a while to craft valuable things) and the Mortal Online System (Extreme recipe customization) would be the holy grail of crafting systems IMO. Especially if you took the Wurm system and made it feel less like clicking buttons and something a bit more... hands on:


(Summary for those who haven't played Wurm. Wurm items have quality. A quality 1-20 sword can be made in a minute or two depending on your skill. But to improve quality random actions such as tempering, polishing, or adding more materials are generated as the next thing you need to do. If you want say a 90 QL sword, it could take hours or days depending on your skill in weaponsmithing. It could also take a lot more of the base material you need to make it but not so much that the sword is worth less than the materials that went into it.)
 
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+++ Long fights when fighting and enemy with equal skill. I had some 1vs1 fights that took roughly 20 minutes to finish. And then you did a tiny mistake and you died.
+++ Skill based PVP with directional blocking. I won several fights in 1 vs X because they didn't know what they were doing and gave out free parrys. Great that numbers do not always win!
++ Kiting in general. If you know what you do you can get away from a larger group that outnumbers you.
++ Full loot. The fact that you loose everything causes an adrenaline rush when getting ambushed or enganging into a fight.
+ Open world with no quests.
+ PVP close to guard zones. Some people might disagree to this point. But I love it when there is a red group is in front of a town e.g. Bakti and slowly a group of random blues gathers in the town and then starts fighting the reds. Without the guard zone those people wouldn't join up and most likely there wouldn't be a fight at all. Also great way for rookies to getting their hands on PVP.
- TC in it's current state. I'm fine with small villages with some crafting benches and stuff. But walls, guards and gates should be the exception and not the standard.
- Guards for TC. It's soooooo anoying when suddenly 4 TC guards jump on you. Even when you manage to sneak into a pallisade e.g. by waiting until someone opens the gate you will get fucked up by guards.
- Guards/AI shooting through walls.
- - (First of all I love the directional combat system.) But it don't like the current handling. Currently there are 2 settings for it available:
Blocking and attacking in the movement direction (pressing A or D while starting blocking). Never really like this because it restricts movement while attacking/ blocking. But it enables easy central blocking.
Blocking and attacking with mouse movement: I like this but it's really annoing that you can't central block or attack without pressing the Alt key. Would be much better if moving up or down the mouse results in a central block.
- - - Lack of decent PVE content.
- - - World does not feel alive. All monsters and co. always at the same spawn point. No suprises after exploring the region for the first time.
 
Likes:

First person
Risk
Lack of hand holding mechanics
Deep crafting
The need to explore
Open world
Single server

Dislikes:

Walls (excessive use of)
NPCs that use range from within said walls
npc ai
idiot savant type characters
inability of a crafting type character to also be able to defend themselves
Limit of things to discover while out exploring
Econmy/trade issues


Things I would like to see in MO2

More roaming creatures.
Fleeing behavior in some ai.
AI that would attack or flee from other types of AI. Possibly even leaving carcases/loot behind.
Some randomness to crafting that could give buffs to crafted items similar to the jewelry.
possibility to rob/steal from npc's. Including player placed ones.
TC that lead to more open Town Control over closed Territory Control.
 

Tehmudjin

Well-Known Member
Likes:

Epic combat
Epic crafting
Epic char creation/skill system
No global banks
Full pvp/full loot

Dislikes:

Need 10 chars to be self sufficient. Often I cant find anyone selling what i need and feel stuck.

OP pets. Anything stronger then a brownbear ruins small scale PvP.

Npcs shooting/seeing/walking through walls and floors.

How annoying it is to trade things between chars, items, house ownerships. Gearing up can be a serius pain in The ass.
 

Speznat

Senior Member
Likes:
- Crafting system, more details or change in game design that an armor takes 1min to craft or something with animation or something would be cool.
- Freedom of player, that you can basicly do whatever you want being cirminal and shady as fuck.
- TC before it got nerfed to the ground
- Butchery, now is much better than the past systems

Negatives:
- Graphics are shit
- TC how its now
- with 1 char your fuckign limited you need atleast 5 or more to be kind of self sufficent and it took away gameplay features i for myself would like to be a alchemist but i have only 4char slots with all skilled supoer crafters and one fighter so no alchemy for me since they introcued it.
- PVE in gerneral is shit, without mounted archery youre fucked. and most enemies have op ranged attacks, or some minoturus that hits you for 40-70 through youre 100% master crafte rmolarium ironsilk. its hilarious. The challenge in MO should be PVP not PVE these mobs are sometimes way to hard to fight.
- sarducca is in pve wise a really shit continent if youre meele fighter
- fabernum sewers is even with 2 people incredibly hard and nearly not possible.
- PVE mobs are buggy as fuck and shoot through walls
- risar dungoen were you got aggro form 3 commander by looking around the corner and youre 5 men group gets fucked
- Risk vs reward and time to gold is totally fucked up you get most gold if you are alone its hilarious.
- hunting normal mobs with other players dont worth it to lees creatures on spawns and stuff group hunting dont work and dont worth the time invested.
- engame loot in dungeons like sator and some other simply dont work the work amount before to get all shit ther eto get the people together and the high risk of buggy shit that all die in there it simply dont worht it we could make 5 times more shit if we would do solo runs on tindrme graveyard in that time.
- Unrealistic gameplay stones that go empy are you fucking nuts? change yields not a limit for Stone WHat the fuck.
- no real punishment for being red.
- sometimes hilarious that a thief can steal 20 items in my invenstory in 20seconds i mean come on sv? really?
- Everytime stuff got nerfed damage wise or gamelay wise because of pvp, that fucked up pve gameplay even more. Like durability change and some other shit. if you nerfe a weapon in dmg than do that for pvp only that if a player hits a other player the dmg is lower and in pve keept the same, STOP FUCKIGN UP BALANCE NEARLY EVERYTIME.
- The hilarious easy way of destroying a 4k house with 1k invested and get out with more gold than before sieging, thats a shitty game design really.
- the placement of rocks resources and trees that a sparely added, just add the fuck more stuff. bring more realism in make chop trees and regrow them and stuff.

Anyway party ahrd henrik do it bette rin mo2 we belive in you :)
 
Likes:
- Crafting system, more details or change in game design that an armor takes 1min to craft or something with animation or something would be cool.
God, please no. It's as entertaining as watching rocks getting crushed.

- TC before it got nerfed to the ground
You mean getting 10+ stacks of rocks from an NPC for doing nothing?

- no real punishment for being red.
Disagree on that one. The current punishment with statloss is just annoying for guildless players, and results in AFK ghosting. No need for more punishments.
 
Skillcap on fighting related skills worked almost fine but it makes no sense for fighter not to be able to gather wood or mine being limited by the system.
All the crafting should be reorganized as a separate set of skills and unlimited like in EVE Online.To be able to fight you have to craft everything by yourself.A lot of players leave the game for difrent reasons and sometimes if person owning a few accounts with maxout crafting leaves the team of players it really brakes the game for players who often helped to skillup those who left.That is why if you wanted to stay in the game for longer time you had to have your own crafting alts because you would shot yourself in the foot being dependent on other player.Having plenty of alts breaking immersion a little bit and seriously handicap players who have limited time or budget to contribute to MO community.
 
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Speznat

Senior Member
God, please no. It's as entertaining as watching rocks getting crushed.


You mean getting 10+ stacks of rocks from an NPC for doing nothing?


Disagree on that one. The current punishment with statloss is just annoying for guildless players, and results in AFK ghosting. No need for more punishments.
you dont get the idea behind my rocks.

so if you mine granum and going form node to node and you get 1500 amarantum out of each stack than it would be bette rin my opinion to make nodes infinite. and lower the yields like 1 stack granum 500-1000 amarantum for example. and less extraction timers would be nice, that makes more sense than you can afk mine better and dont have to do a shitty grinding task and you could watch youtube withotu setting yourself an 5 min timer to tab in each fucking 5 min. that makes 100% more sense in gameplay. not that half afk bullshit full active or full aafk but please not that current bullshit we have right now.

and no its no fun att all to look rocks gettign crushed either way SV have to do a full afk system that works or a full active system that works but that tab in and switch mining place and stuff bullshit dont work.

The red punishment was more ment to people with res priests nearby no stat loss so no punishment is bad game design.
 
Thread starter #11
Skillcap on fighting related skills worked almost fine but it makes no sense for fighter not to be able to gather wood or mine being limited by the system.
All the crafting should be reorganized as a separate set of skills and unlimited like in EVE Online.To be able to fight you have to craft everything by yourself.A lot of players leave the game for difrent reasons and sometimes if person owning a few accounts with maxout crafting leaves the team of players it really brakes the game for players who often helped to skillup those who left.That is why if you wanted to stay in the game for longer time you had to have your own crafting alts because you would shot yourself in the foot being dependent on other player.Having plenty of alts breaking immersion a little bit and seriously handicap players who have limited time or budget to contribute to MO community.
I would consider that a vast improvement on the current system (or the system as I remembered it when I last played more accurately), and would probably return to a MO2 that implemented those changes. I'd much prefer unlimited training in combat but limitations on what you could benefit from at one time based on gear though. The reason for this is it still achieves the primary intent of a skill-cap system (Needing different characters to play different roles for optimal group play/variety of builds as opposed to one universalist build that does everything like in the original Darkfall).

I think a "Everyone can eventually learn everything but they can't do it all at the same time" though has a few important advantages that really make it an ideal system IMO. Going from most important to least important.

1. In a system where you have one combat build determined your skills, if your build gets nerfed you may need to partially or entirely retrain. Leading to a point where an old favorite character could be turned into a near throw-away by the latest patch.

2. No player can / should be expected to fully understand all elements of building a character perfectly at the start. They need room to grow and experiment so they can eventually find the build that works best for them (Not doing so gives a huge advantage to those who just default to cookie-cutter builds). A system with limitations based on gear rather than skillcap is much more friendly upon those who want to experiment.

3. It's just more fun IMO. I like the idea that one day I might log in and play as an archer. But I can also train up my ability to heal people, or command pets, or use a spear etc. And I can do this all while building a single character that is my identity in the game I'm playing.

4. In real life, and even heroes in stories, it is rare that someone is as one dimensional as we frequently set up game characters to be. A real-life special forces operative is going to choose a different loadout based on the mission at hand and not only be trained in the use of a single loadout. And most heroes that have a lengthy story around them use multiple weapons at different parts in the story. For instance in Wheel of Time Rand Al'Thor is good with a sword but there are also several scenes he uses a bow to great effect and of course his character is best known for fighting with *spoiler, if you know the story you know what I'm censoring here and if you don't then I won't spoil it*.

That all being said making limitations function on gear is ENTIRELY different than how things worked in MO1. I'm not sure how much they are intending to review every element of the game and how much they are just re-releasing the same game with better graphics and combat. If they opened up crafting skills without reviewing combat skills that would actually make the current game better with minimal change/thought. If they move build restrictions over go gear it would require a dramatic restructuring of how gear functions to ensure the limitations it imposes are a meaningful barrier to running around as warrior/sorcerer with pets that fights equally well on horseback or foot.

Personally I still think it would be worth it as it would be a huge improvement in terms of game enjoyability of me at least. But if being a good thief won't make my fiance less good of an assassin, if being a good tamer won't make me less good of a beastmaster. And if I can take the skills needed to make a stew from the flesh of my defeated opponents without compromising my ability to defeat them... those all will make me enjoy the game A LOT more.
 
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McBadie

Junior Member
Skillcap on fighting related skills worked almost fine but it makes no sense for fighter not to be able to gather wood or mine being limited by the system.
All the crafting should be reorganized as a separate set of skills and unlimited like in EVE Online.To be able to fight you have to craft everything by yourself.A lot of players leave the game for difrent reasons and sometimes if person owning a few accounts with maxout crafting leaves the team of players it really brakes the game for players who often helped to skillup those who left.That is why if you wanted to stay in the game for longer time you had to have your own crafting alts because you would shot yourself in the foot being dependent on other player.Having plenty of alts breaking immersion a little bit and seriously handicap players who have limited time or budget to contribute to MO community.
MO2 is going to have only one toon per account, so hoping that toon will have a combat skill tree/cap and a trade tree/cap. Then you could also defend yourself as a trader. If you can only specialize in one form of combat and one trade, it will still force trade/interaction.
 
Disliked:

- Combat
For me it's looks like
:
It's fills like all do the same thing and has almost same combat style(even with different gear/skills)
''Full loot" system can create some sort of "dynamic" combat illusion(cuz adrenaline etc.), but it's clunky, undynamic, sometimes monotonous, not very diverse, not "many-sided",
don't like channeling/cast system(you cannot move during the channeling - "it's undynamic" ; Sorry for tautology)
don't like channeling/cast without any weapon
Personally, prefers hybrid combat system from "Mordhau + For Honor"(Mordhau - cuz direction "micromanagement" ; For honor-cuz combat fills quite diverse/has many styles(barbaric, "chivalrous" , "monkish" etc. + some acrobatic maneuvres))

-Animation

-Character design(yep, they are ugly)

-Sometimes not very informative interface

-Very similar armor design

-Armor(by types) almost not affect your speed/run/resource regeneraton etc.

Likes:

-Fool loot/Risk
-Authentic visual style(even not very diverse in some aspects)
-Good crafting system
-Big open world
 
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Another negative point I forgot to mention:
Underwater combat:
The stamina management under water is completely confusing. Sometimes you stop in the middle of the water, and stamina regeneration starts suddenly and you can start spamming the enemy. Sometimes you stop and there is no stamina regeneration at all. Sometimes it drains stamina while swimming. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you even regenerate a tiny bit stamina while swimming.
And everything with the same character, same skills, same inventory weight, same armor. I just don't get it. It seems to be random.
And then there is under water fighting with thursting only... The enemy parry whores and you can fight forever, without anyone getting any significiant damage. Until one starts drowning, which is with max skill how long? 5 minutes? Even more?
 
Skillcap on fighting related skills worked almost fine but it makes no sense for fighter not to be able to gather wood or mine being limited by the system.
All the crafting should be reorganized as a separate set of skills and unlimited like in EVE Online.To be able to fight you have to craft everything by yourself.A lot of players leave the game for difrent reasons and sometimes if person owning a few accounts with maxout crafting leaves the team of players it really brakes the game for players who often helped to skillup those who left.That is why if you wanted to stay in the game for longer time you had to have your own crafting alts because you would shot yourself in the foot being dependent on other player.Having plenty of alts breaking immersion a little bit and seriously handicap players who have limited time or budget to contribute to MO community.
nah that would break the economy if everyone could craft anything. If ur crafter friends quit the game just farm gold and buy shit at npc towns, theres a broker there u kno.
 

Speznat

Senior Member
nah that would break the economy if everyone could craft anything. If ur crafter friends quit the game just farm gold and buy shit at npc towns, theres a broker there u kno.
its not hurting the economy? with max 20 slots to sell wich economy? they should stack it up to 1000 per account than we would have an economy.

wich economy? do you living under a rock? nearly everytime you need something you dont get it because there a to less people. everyone should have the option to be self sufficent if he choooses to. wich economy xD there is no economy in mortal open your eyes man
 
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Likes:
Skill based combat/pvp
full loot
crafting system / char creation
first person only


Dislikes:
Pets ruining the skill based combat/pvp
TC / walls NPC guards shooting through walls / objects
small playerbase
only a few char builds viable
 
Thread starter #18
nah that would break the economy if everyone could craft anything.
Wurm Online is a good example of a game where this is not the case. The time to reach a reasonable proficiency in most skills is a week to a month of grinding. Even a few days if you're hardcore about it. To max a skill... years.

But (Priest system aside) everyone is capable of learning every skill in the game. They just aren't going to max everything because it's freaking impossible.

Combine this with the fact that even for a maxed crafter, a max quality item is a serious time investment... there is no lack of demand for anything if you can get the quality high enough.

Mind you Wurm has a steeper power curve between new players and veterans than I consider healthy for a PvP MMO. But for crafting skills as opposed to combat skills that seems fine as long as the power curve on gear isn't too steep.
 
nah that would break the economy if everyone could craft anything. If ur crafter friends quit the game just farm gold and buy shit at npc towns, theres a broker there u kno.
Crafting is very time consuming and not everybody will like to dedicate full time to it.I had armour,weapon crafter cook,extractor,gatherer...all of them and it started to be extremely enoying to constantly relog instead just playing my main.I have never seen working economy in MMO's I liked to play except EVE Online and not being able to buy anything on the market is one of the reason players quit games.
 

Hayasa

Honored Member
likes - no marketing... I'm joking, this is their biggest mistake
 
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